A couple questions - Page 103 - The Horse Forum
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post #1021 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AladdinAVR View Post
Also group lessons are never fun,
Now my trainer puts together great group lessons, well I guess more 'semi-private' 3 possibly 4 of us, around the skill level, and I really enjoy them, in fact I'm just off for a two people group, today, because she had to move the private I had booked for tomorrow.

We usually are all working at the same time, but lope work and pole work we do individually, and I find it helpful watching others make mistakes, I think because we have no mirrors, so I cant see myself, if that makes sense.

So the right group lesson can be fun, but the wrong one Yeah, that can be not so fun
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post #1022 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
Like every other thing in the horse world it all depends.

I do not ever let my horse graze with a bit in, when he/she is tacked up and working, then they are working not grazing.

In a halter, well Gibbs is allowed to walk behind me on a 12' lead rope, and he can graze as long as he keeps up...that concept is probably confusing to you, but that is OK, you don't have to GET everything, it is something that Gibbs and I have worked out.

Now when I am actually hand grazing a horse, a don't really care where I stand, but it will be closer to the front end, hand grazing is something we do for quiet time, for a reward, and I am not dictating anything to them, we just amble along looking for tasty bits of grass, I might be leaning on them, admiring them from a few feet away, it is a chill time not an exercise, so stay safe and enjoy.
Oh ok. And how much slack do you have in the lead when he eats? When he wants to eat and walk, do you loosen up the slack in the lead or let him walk while you stay stationary?

Im putting a lot of emphasis on this because there is a lot more too it than I initially thought. I no longer let my mare drag me around and my trainer does bring up a good point in how you shouldnt have so much slack in the lead that its on the ground.

At the old barn people would always hand graze their horses. I always observed. Most would just have a 14 ft lead or so and stand in one spot while they drop the lead and let their horse wander whereever to eat. They can be 15ft from the, even 20 or 25. If that horse spooks and decides to bolt, its either going to run away and you cant hold onto the lead enough, or it will run over you.

My trainer brings up a good point in that by you standing much closer to them, they will stay aware of you and your presense. They will still focus on you. Whereas the further you are, the less aware they are of you. So its mostly a safety thing.

How Ive been doing it for the past few months since Ive started wit hthis new trainer (even though yesterday when I grazed my mare, it was the first time in at least a month). What I do is hold the lead about 3-4ft from the shank, so technically when her head is down to eat, I am right next to her shoulder. If she spooks and tries to bump into me, I have enough time to quickly get my elbow up and elbow her and then wallop her with the lead. Yes my mare does tend to spook rather easily compared to most horses. A car could drive by down the main road and she will spook.

Now when she wants to eat and walk and eat more. I will keep the same slack in the lead but I will anticipate her moving and get a step up on her by matching her speed. So that way she is not leading me. We are always side by side. Make sense? Is this a good idea? My biggest issue is that i dont want her to think shes leading me, especially now that she is doing SO GOOD when leading.
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post #1023 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 10:26 AM
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THE HORSE DID NOT GRAZE WITH WARWICK BECAUSE WARWICK IS THE LEADER.

Sorry to yell, but it is THAT simple. My horses only attempt to graze once, IF ANY, with me leading them. They drag DH all over trying to find their favorite grass. Are they TRAINED, or is it the presence of the leader??
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post #1024 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greentree View Post
THE HORSE DID NOT GRAZE WITH WARWICK BECAUSE WARWICK IS THE LEADER.

Sorry to yell, but it is THAT simple. My horses only attempt to graze once, IF ANY, with me leading them. They drag DH all over trying to find their favorite grass. Are they TRAINED, or is it the presence of the leader??
Wait, Im confused.

In this video, when Warwick took over the horse, the horse did try to dig his head down to graze. But 5 corrections of him snaping the lead and the horse stopped.
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post #1025 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 10:40 AM
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My horse is only allowed to graze when I ALLOW it other then that its a no no.
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post #1026 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rainaisabelle View Post
My horse is only allowed to graze when I ALLOW it other then that its a no no.
Same. Im thankfully very fortunate that she is not aggressive when trying to get grass. When I tell her no, she knows. When I let her graze, I take her to the area where I want her to eat, then I will drop part of the lead and she knows that is our que.

If anything Im more focused on making sure im doing it right when grazing her and no problems will result from it. Especially since right now, she is leading so much better and I have fixed our past problems. So dont want to risk any set backs.
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post #1027 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Oh ok. And how much slack do you have in the lead when he eats? When he wants to eat and walk, do you loosen up the slack in the lead or let him walk while you stay stationary?
How much slack? if he is walking behind me, I have no idea, he just has to keep up and grab a mouthful as we go. If I am just chilling with him, he can go where he likes as ling as he is mannerly about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Im putting a lot of emphasis on this because there is a lot more too it than I initially thought. I no longer let my mare drag me around and my trainer does bring up a good point in how you shouldnt have so much slack in the lead that its on the ground.
No there is not a lot to it, you do what suits, and I don't care if the rope is on the ground, if he treads on it he sorts himself out and takes his foot off again. No he is not allowed to drag, but I am happy to follow him around as her grazes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
At the old barn people would always hand graze their horses. I always observed. Most would just have a 14 ft lead or so and stand in one spot while they drop the lead and let their horse wander whereever to eat. They can be 15ft from the, even 20 or 25. If that horse spooks and decides to bolt, its either going to run away and you cant hold onto the lead enough, or it will run over you.
Gibbs is NOT going to spook or bolt, he is out grazing, I am watching for things that could be an issue, like Oh a small nuclear bomb. Now my new mare Fergie will be a spooker, but she won't bolt, so I have no worries giving her a long line to graze on. She has been well trained not to pull on the lead, and she has had a couple of real whacks from me and now understands that she is not allowed to get in my bubble unless invited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
My trainer brings up a good point in that by you standing much closer to them, they will stay aware of you and your presense. They will still focus on you. Whereas the further you are, the less aware they are of you. So its mostly a safety thing.
Again, you need to know your horse, and be confident in your own handling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
How Ive been doing it for the past few months since Ive started wit hthis new trainer (even though yesterday when I grazed my mare, it was the first time in at least a month). What I do is hold the lead about 3-4ft from the shank, so technically when her head is down to eat, I am right next to her shoulder. If she spooks and tries to bump into me, I have enough time to quickly get my elbow up and elbow her and then wallop her with the lead. Yes my mare does tend to spook rather easily compared to most horses. A car could drive by down the main road and she will spook.
She sounds like you and her need to get out more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Now when she wants to eat and walk and eat more. I will keep the same slack in the lead but I will anticipate her moving and get a step up on her by matching her speed. So that way she is not leading me. We are always side by side. Make sense? Is this a good idea? My biggest issue is that i dont want her to think shes leading me, especially now that she is doing SO GOOD when leading.
You know I never worry about it, I know who is boss, when we are going somewhere I am the leader. When we are out chilling it does not matter to me in the slightest, that is chill out time, so Yeah we are chilling

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post #1028 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
No there is not a lot to it, you do what suits, and I don't care if the rope is on the ground, if he treads on it he sorts himself out and takes his foot off again. No he is not allowed to drag, but I am happy to follow him around as her grazes.
Sorry to be naive but if you follow him around while he grazes, isnt that mean he is leading you?

Quote:
Gibbs is NOT going to spook or bolt, he is out grazing, I am watching for things that could be an issue, like Oh a small nuclear bomb. Now my new mare Fergie will be a spooker, but she won't bolt, so I have no worries giving her a long line to graze on. She has been well trained not to pull on the lead, and she has had a couple of real whacks from me and now understands that she is not allowed to get in my bubble unless invited.
If my mare spooks and goes in my direction, I will usually elbow her and tell her to get out and wallop her read hard on the neck or shoulder with the end of the lead. I didnt know if that was the right correction on a horse that may try to barge into you when spooking. Im glad to hear its the right correct afterall!? Is it?


Quote:
Again, you need to know your horse, and be confident in your own handling.
Yes

Quote:
She sounds like you and her need to get out more.
What do you mean?


Quote:
You know I never worry about it, I know who is boss, when we are going somewhere I am the leader. When we are out chilling it does not matter to me in the slightest, that is chill out time, so Yeah we are chilling
Thats how I see it as well.
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post #1029 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Sorry to be naive but if you follow him around while he grazes, isnt that mean he is leading you?
I never ever think about it, if I hand graze it is a reward, and the horse has earned the right just to chill and eat grass, I don't care it is time out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
If my mare spooks and goes in my direction, I will usually elbow her and tell her to get out and wallop her read hard on the neck or shoulder with the end of the lead. I didnt know if that was the right correction on a horse that may try to barge into you when spooking. Im glad to hear its the right correct afterall!? Is it?
If I was hand grazing a spooky horse with no respect for my space I would be carrying a schooling whip and the first time they invaded my space they would regret it. And NO I can't explain what I mean because my level of response would depend totally on the horse...my last Arab, it would just take a word and a look, my current mare, well she would probably think she was going to die because I would be hard and heavy on her. Gibbs would have physical punishment because he knows better and nothing would scare him enough to be on my space so he would just be being a pain.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
What do you mean?
If she is spooking at cars out on the road you have problems, the only way to get over it is to expose her to stuff. My genuine concern is that you just do not have the experience to deal with this. Not your fault, but you can't learn everything you need to know in months, or even a couple of years. After years of handling different horses you knwo what to do without thinking about it, having to think and then react means that you are too late, you have missed the window. This is why we all recommend an older trained horse for the absolute novice, they are more forgiving and will not take advantage of a raw beginners mistakes and bad timing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Thats how I see it as well.
Then why ask about who is the boss? When I was at work, my boss was my boss, I did as he told me, did not argue back, was a good second in command. When we went out for a drink after work he was less my boss and more Phil, and the relationship was different. I do not have to be the boss if my horse every single second for her to know who is the boss.
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post #1030 of 1323 Old 11-23-2015, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Sorry to be naive but if you follow him around while he grazes, isnt that mean he is leading you?
I never ever think about it, if I hand graze it is a reward, and the horse has earned the right just to chill and eat grass, I don't care it is time out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
If my mare spooks and goes in my direction, I will usually elbow her and tell her to get out and wallop her read hard on the neck or shoulder with the end of the lead. I didnt know if that was the right correction on a horse that may try to barge into you when spooking. Im glad to hear its the right correct afterall!? Is it?
If I was hand grazing a spooky horse with no respect for my space I would be carrying a schooling whip and the first time they invaded my space they would regret it. And NO I can't explain what I mean because my level of response would depend totally on the horse...my last Arab, it would just take a word and a look, my current mare, well she would probably think she was going to die because I would be hard and heavy on her. Gibbs would have physical punishment because he knows better and nothing would scare him enough to be on my space so he would just be being a pain.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
What do you mean?
If she is spooking at cars out on the road you have problems, the only way to get over it is to expose her to stuff. My genuine concern is that you just do not have the experience to deal with this. Not your fault, but you can't learn everything you need to know in months, or even a couple of years. After years of handling different horses you knwo what to do without thinking about it, having to think and then react means that you are too late, you have missed the window. This is why we all recommend an older trained horse for the absolute novice, they are more forgiving and will not take advantage of a raw beginners mistakes and bad timing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Thats how I see it as well.
Then why ask about who is the boss? When I was at work, my boss was my boss, I did as he told me, did not argue back, was a good second in command. When we went out for a drink after work he was less my boss and more Phil, and the relationship was different. I do not have to be the boss if my horse every single second for her to know who is the boss.
This is beautifully put.. It's like this when I took my horse out for a walk the first time in months he was anxious and was like wtf what are we doing? so much so that he did a 180 from beside me to in front of me.

I just ignored him and kept walking, he had to walk backwards which he realised after a while is extremely uncomfortable. My TB has only spooked into me once and that is it after that he learnt quickly I didn't appreciate being run over and that I would 'eat' him if he ever did it again.
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