A couple questions - Page 12 - The Horse Forum
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post #111 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by anndankev View Post
Just read what I posted last ...

Steel toes are not good for working with horses. They may be ok for the horses themselves. LOL

I prefer barefoot for horses if possible, and at home for myself. hahahaha
Im guessing the steel could go into my foot if they step on it? Good to know. Looks like I saved money and can keep using my current mud boots (good set).

Im going to bring my vid cam out with me again tonight. Heading there shortly. If anyone has any suggestions on what I can record of us tonight, let me know. Maybe watch a grooming session? Ive talked before about how my horse isnt the best standing tied (shes a lot better today than a month ago), but perhaps some of you would like to see how she is while tied?
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post #112 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 06:29 PM
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Hoofpic, thanks very much for posting the video. I'm very happy to see that both you and your horse are doing better than I expected. I still think you aren't being clear and your horse is frustrated by it, as others have pointed out in detail. But success is just around the corner for you, so don't give up.

Three things:
  1. Have you been badly bitten by a horse? By this horse? What exactly is she doing that you believe she is threatening to bite?
  2. When you're looking for a yield, don't just look at the part you want to move. Crouch down, make a mad face, and imagine you are a monster about to lunge on that body part and eat it in one bite. You can refine it after you see results.
  3. When you are yielding hindquarters or forequarters, your goal is to have one end pivot (two feet remaining in a 2' circle) while the other end moves around the circle. One sign to watch for is getting the horse to step all the way across in front of the other leg as it turns.
Success will give you confidence, and confidence will give you success. Focus on what you want to improve and quit when you see progress. Then build on it the next day. A short session every day is better than longer sessions spread farther apart. Good luck. I don't think I would have been brave enough to post a video of my early attempts for this crowd.
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post #113 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 06:44 PM
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Yes, there are a lot of stories out there of people wearing steel toed boots ending up with the metal embedded in their foot- ouch! I wear Muck Boots or regular riding boots around my horse.

As far as videoing tonight (and we're a captive audience now :)) let's see a few of the other areas where you feel you want to improve. Grooming sounds good, or leading in the open where there's tempting grass nearby.

You can do this! And I second Joel that it's great you're willing to let a bunch of strangers see how things are going. In my professional life, I work with people who coach teachers on improving their instruction- using video for feedback and development is a powerful tool for improvement. We hear time and time again that when a teacher can sit down with a coach or principal and get the feedback alongside watching themselves on the video, while uncomfortable at first, they find it extraordinarily helpful. I think you'll find that people here can give you much better advice when they can see what you're working on and trying out. It's not a substitute for someone right there with you to help with timing and finesse, but it's a good addition to your in-person help.
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post #114 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 07:44 PM
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I was guessing you had to be really tall! My mare is 14.3 and I am only 5' so she looks tall next to me. I gained confidence on a 13.1 Haflinger so I know how it feels more comfortable to be closer to the ground.
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post #115 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Just to double check, the hand Im raising and lowering is the one that is on the inside?

So if she is on my right, I raise and lower the right hand?

Also, i think im going to take another video tonight. Any quick suggestions on what I should get her to do?

Im thinking i could lead her outside and do the constant change of directions and see how she does and if she gets better throughout the quick lesson.

Yes, the hand you are leading with.

A word of advice: don't repeat things over and over even after she's done them right. If she does it right, praise and MOVE ON.

I'm sure there will be improvements between this video and the next, just don't overthink things, be clear, and only correct with a smack if it's a dangerous behavior. If my horse goes to bite me, I don't whack him one but I do send him away with my body, or I flutter my hand towards him. If he tries again, that's when he gets a whack.
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"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"

Last edited by Skyseternalangel; 10-15-2015 at 08:20 PM.
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post #116 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 08:34 PM
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Please don't yank her head or tap her muzzle with your boot. Do tap her hip to driver her forward. I'll repeat that after a while, just a wiggle of the whip will cause her to lift her nose. Best to do it when you think she's going to dive. Changing direction keeps the horse focused on you rather than elsewhere. A 45* is fine and done randomly is best. Also if concerned about a nip, just bend your arm and flap your elbow randomly as you walk. She'll be mindful of it and doesn't want a bump. If she gets one, oh well, just carry on business as usual.

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post #117 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Ok i was planning on doing 3 videos. I only got around to the 2nd cause she reared and tried kicking at me twice. Unfortunately, the best part of me really lunging her real hard was not caught on tape. Sucks!!!!

Now after i took the cam down and was bringing her back to her pasture paddock, she very lightly bit my arm, didnt hurt...and this is where i really went after her.

Will go more in detail when i get home. She was breathing heavy and all that kept running through my head while lunging her was "make her think shes going to die!!!!"

I need to make adjustments for when i lead her now. Im going to start carrying my 5ft whip with me. Because i didnt have it on me, all i was stuck with was my 15ft lead.
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post #118 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Ah this is so aggravating to watch this clip. Of all times I need my full lunge whip, I dont have it on me. It was in the barn. I needed it so bad when I was leading her and she got fiesty with me and then rears and then when I lunge her, she kicked out a couple times at me.

This is why I need to start carrying it with me all the time because just like today, (just because tonight started great, she whinied at me, was great for grooming and leading) doesnt mean anything.

She really does not like (almost seems she takes offense when I lead her and I start heading to the direction that she is on. So if shes on my right, I make a turn to the right, and she refuses to move over with me, she will purposely stand and let me bump into her. So I give her a sharp elbow to the shoulder or neck and then she gets over but tonight, that one time she got upset and reared. THIS IS WHEN I NEEDED THE WHIP!!! I wanted to smack those front legs as hard as i could before they hit the ground with the whip so bad! All I was able to do was yank downward on the lead really hard to get her feet back on the ground and told her NO!

I sure did not expect her to kick out at me while I lunged her. Not once but twice. I saw it come, I saw her hind in towards me but my 15ft lead wasnt long enough to reach her hind (this is why I dont use 8 or 10ft leads much anymore, theyre useless in my case), I couldnt whip her on the hind with it because i was worried she would turn her hind towards me and strike me. Same when she reared (and she got way up), I wanted to wack her front legs as hard as I could but when a horse gets up, you should NOT step forward in case they kick with their front legs.

This is why when she niped me on the arm when walking back to her paddock, I went crazy on her. This is the footage really wish you guys could see. I lunged her in really tight circles around me for must have been 4 or 5 mins non stop. I didnt have the whip on me so I used the end of the lead as one. I hit her HQ a couple times and then after I basically whipped as furiously as I could, as hard as I could the end of the lead on the ground. I kept doing it non stop, i didnt let off the pressure. She was going fast. She was breathing really heavy. I could tell her anxiety was through the roof.

She even pooped she was so nervous. I knew I really had to make up for earlier and I hope I at least sent a message to her.

I will edit the video and show you her rearing and kicking out but i wont show me lunging her because i was too light on her. But later when I had the camera all turned off and taken down, when she bite me on the arm (light but still), I really gave it to her. She was submitting when I was lunging her in real tight, real fast with full non stop pressure, she had her inner ear facing me, she was licking and chewing but i went a bit longer cause i wanted to send the message.

Last edited by Hoofpic; 10-15-2015 at 10:18 PM.
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post #119 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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IM SO UPSET OFF RIGHT NOW THAT I COULDNT WHIP HER. I saw it coming, I know I could have timed it right.

I took what was a great start to our evening for granted and didnt have the whip with me. Im not taking anymore chances and now I know what my trainer and I will be working on this Sats lesson. It was suppose to be riding a lesson horse again but unfortunately, it needs to be this because stuff like this is far more serious issue than riding right now.

As cumbersome as it is carrying a 4ft whip around everywhere, I need to do this.

When I was lunging her like a maniac tonight, I had instant flashbacks of when i roundpenned her for the first time 3.5 months ago (with the trainer that was and she was a much different horse after).

I should note that after she reared and kicked out at me for not liking it when I pulled her head towards me and elbowed her for not moving over, I restested her to see if she was better after and she was. We did a bunch of turns onto her side and she was MUCH more willingly to move over when i did.
Where do I go from here? What I work with her on tonight, should I do it again tomorrow?

Last edited by anndankev; 10-15-2015 at 10:49 PM. Reason: Moderated for language.
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post #120 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 10:47 PM
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Calm down.

My first instructor told me to keep marks on a calendar; of good days, mediocre days, and bad days. Then looking back I would see a gradual change over.

And comparing to dieting/weight loss, I've heard to only weigh yourself once a week. Daily you won't see any change. Maybe daily videos will be too much.

Cherry Hill puts out some very good diagram type books, a series where they start with 101. Such as 101 Arena Exercises, 101 Long Line Exercises ... . Maybe they have one on showmanship, which would give you specific diagrams of patterns to practice.

Even if you worked on them in a more casual (or NH) way than the strictly disciplined show ring showmanship style. It would give you definite pattern setups. Such as walk from A to B, Stop, back up 3 steps, trot to C, Halt, pivot 90 degrees, Walk to D. And so on.
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