A couple questions - Page 13 - The Horse Forum
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post #121 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 10:50 PM
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Whipping her isn't the goal.. not a good way to correct

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #122 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel View Post
Whipping her isn't the goal.. not a good way to correct
It is when she rears and kicks out at you.
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post #123 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 10:55 PM
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It is when she rears and kicks out at you.
Whipping to me means more than once, it means over and over. Once is enough, then driving her away to follow. Everything must be a learning experience

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #124 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Whipping to me means more than once, it means over and over. Once is enough, then driving her away to follow. Everything must be a learning experience
Well I really wish i had the last session me lunging her on tape cause i was really hard on her. This is the one that I would love feedback on. But i have my doubts if this sent a message to her at all.

I whipped her on the HQ a couple times because I wanted her to go and fast and she wasnt going as fast as I wanted. So I whipped her on the HQ once (didnt get her hind as hard as I wanted, so she didnt pick it up as much as I wanted) so I whipped her again. I wish I had at least the carrot stick on me cause they feel it much more.

She must have been running at a 60 degree angle off the ground because i was running her tight and so fast. Which just eats me up inside to do this because i know its bad for their joints. I am so against lunging any horse in tight circles, let alone doing it really fast and aggresively I was running her so fast, she almost slipped a couple times but i kept at it.

Then kept whipping the ground as hard as i could and fast as i could while driving her HQ by not keeping my feet planted but having them a bit active. This kept her going without slowing down. I must have whipped the ground 100 times. I felt like I was roundpenning her. The lead obviously isnt as effective as the carrot stick cause it makes no sound but I made sure it did when it cracked the dirt each time I hit it.

I have no doubt that my correction for her nipping me was severe enough. But my ones for her rearing and kicking out at me twice wasnt. If I had the 4ft whip with me I would have been able to reach her front legs when she reared and reared her HQ when she was about to kick out at me.

The entire time I was lunging her and constantly putting pressure on her by whipping the end of the lead as hard as I could on the ground so that it landed right by her HQ, I kept thinking to myself, should I follow the advice that a fellow boarder at the old barn once gave me and that was, that when one of his horses bites him, he lunges his gelding into the ground until he drops. 20-30mins non stop, him in a full out sweat, just exchausted to death.

Now Im not one for lunging horses into the ground (I keep the amount of circles I make them do to a minimal, basically until they show signs of submission), but I was just wanting to send her a message that i was just about tempted to do it. But I didnt. I stopped at about 5 or 6 mins.

Last edited by Hoofpic; 10-15-2015 at 11:16 PM.
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post #125 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 11:15 PM
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Calm down.
I second that. Your priority right now is to stop irritating your horse rather than correcting her for getting irritated.
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post #126 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
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I second that. Your priority right now is to stop irritating your horse rather than correcting her for getting irritated.
But she shouldnt be getting irritated when all i did was lead her into her side and she didnt want to move over with me, so she stands still and throws a fuss when i tell her to move.
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post #127 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 11:23 PM
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But she shouldnt be getting irritated when all i did was lead her into her side and she didnt want to move over with me, so she stands still and throws a fuss when i tell her to move.
If she acts a lot better tomorrow, you probably did well. If there's no improvement, it might mean you aren't quite aware of "all you did."
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post #128 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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If she acts a lot better tomorrow, you probably did well. If there's no improvement, it might mean you aren't quite aware of "all you did."
After I lunged her the first time for her not wanting to move over when I turned her side,I went back to leading her again into her side and she was cooperating and moving over nicely as i moved over. I did circles her direction, sharp 45 degree turns her direction, from a walk and from a stop.

I dont know what it is but she just doesnt like me going into her side and tries to block me. I will show you what happened when i splice the video in the morning. It was outside so it was clear as day obvious what happened.

I will not show the entire video though since my punishment wasnt what i wanted compared to the last go around. No whip on hand really limited me but on the last go around, I was fed up and so wanting to just send her the message that I went bezerk and realized that i should just use the end of the lead as a whip (as ineffective as it is compared to a real whip) but once i threw in my body language and my ques and tone of voice, I made it work. I had to.

Seeing how she still niped my arm on the way back after the first time, that says that she didnt get the full message the first time lunging her. If she did, it wasnt harsh enough to last any longer than 60 seconds.
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post #129 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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If she acts a lot better tomorrow, you probably did well. If there's no improvement, it might mean you aren't quite aware of "all you did."
And the only way to find out is to do the exact same stuff we did tonight (leading) but I dont know if I should seeing how I worked on it with her tonight and last night already.
I know horses learn by repetition but how much is too much, too soon.
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post #130 of 1323 Old 10-15-2015, 11:53 PM
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With pressure and release training that most of us use, the horse is trying to make the pressure go away. If biting, kicking, rearing, or running away makes the pressure go away, that's what the horse will do. And yes, then we must teach the horse that those are wrong answers.

But put yourself in the horse's place. She doesn't speak English. She's never watched old episodes of the Lone Ranger She's never seen a YouTube training video. How is she supposed to know what you want? Some horses have a lot of imagination and will try a lot of different behaviors, often hitting on the right one by experimentation. Some horses are good guessers and just seem to be able to find the right answer more times than not. But other horses are not great guessers and don't have great imaginations, so they try a couple of answers, can't get away from the pressure, and get frustrated. They think it's hopeless. They strike out, or shut down.

For those horses especially, it's critical to be clear, by asking in a way that helps guide the horse to the right behavior, and to be fair, rewarding the slightest try.
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