A couple questions - Page 130 - The Horse Forum
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post #1291 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greentree View Post
I finally got to watch the video....

What I meant, and now confirmed this by the video, is that just because she licks and chews DOES NOT mean she is submitting, and she is NOT. She is one second away from lunging forward with her teeth barred.

There was NO correction for her bad behavior, and then she was still giving you a go to he'll look, and you told her good girl. She is not sore, but bluffing you because you quit, THEN praise her for bluffing you.
What bad behaviour in particular though.

She always gives the side eye. Someone in this thread (cant remember who) mentioned their horse does it to them as well from time to time and they do it because theyre seeing if theyre in trouble. I think it was Dream who said it but i could be wrong.

I said good girl cause she backed up when I told her to.

When is she bluffingme.
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post #1292 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Her giving me the side eye and pulling faces at me, ears back...what do you think she meant by it? Do you see giving me the side eye as acceptable?

What would you have done to correct her by getting her to stand still? When I did it in the arena months ago, (mind you she was a lot better), I would just back her up each time she would take a step. She takes 2 steps, she goes back 2 steps. She takes 1 step, she goes back 1.

Great news about the ice. So basically you gave your mare more slack in the lead when leading her over icy patches. Makes sense, I should do it with mine as well.
At this stage I am far more worried about getting her to stand still, and behave, rather than her opinion of it, which is all the pulling faces and ears back is.

To correct her, depends, I would have to be there, and know her better, intensity of my response depends on the sensitivity of the horse, which is why I am reluctant once again to coach online and yet again direct you to real life people who can help you in the NOW, not hours later when it is too late. Depending on the mare my correction could be a very hard smack on the chest, a growl, a push, a hard jerk of the lead rope, or possibly a stroke or a scratch,or a combination...

As to the ice, yes, each and every one of my horses learns that of there is ice, slick mud, bad going, walking across logs, I am going to give you as much space and rope as you need and you will pick your way across. There are times when I want to control every foot fall, and times when they need to think for themselves.
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post #1293 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
I think that you simply cannot do two jobs at once,and expect any feedback, if you want to film, great do that, but you can't work effectively with the mare when your concentration is split, it is not fair.

If you want any sort of constructive feed back, have some one else video you while you give 100% attention to what you are doing.

SO yes she has her ears back, but what do you expect?
Golden, I still have my video camera and my tripod in my trunk. It pretty much only gets used at the barn so its in my car 24 7.
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post #1294 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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At this stage I am far more worried about getting her to stand still, and behave, rather than her opinion of it, which is all the pulling faces and ears back is.

To correct her, depends, I would have to be there, and know her better, intensity of my response depends on the sensitivity of the horse, which is why I am reluctant once again to coach online and yet again direct you to real life people who can help you in the NOW, not hours later when it is too late. Depending on the mare my correction could be a very hard smack on the chest, a growl, a push, a hard jerk of the lead rope, or possibly a stroke or a scratch,or a combination...

As to the ice, yes, each and every one of my horses learns that of there is ice, slick mud, bad going, walking across logs, I am going to give you as much space and rope as you need and you will pick your way across. There are times when I want to control every foot fall, and times when they need to think for themselves.
Speaking of a real life mentor, (this just struck me this morning) I actually did have one at the old barn - the barn helper there. Unfortunately, she wasnt a very good person to learn from, she gave me a lot of incorrect info and we had different opinions on many things.

She said my mare wasnt lame, when she was.
She said to just ride my mare (without any supervision) because Ive had lessons.

She was just a very bad person to learn from.

Hate to say it but smacking my mare on the neck doesnt phase her one bit.

Why do you think her ears are going back? So when shes giving me the side eye, shes pulling faces at me? I never knew that. I DID INQUIRE about this specific behaviour awhile back on here but someone mentioned their horse does it with them from time to time and its not a bad disrespectful behaviour so I put it off. Is that seen as being disrepectful?

Remember though, shes not putting her ears back or pulling faces at me when Im asking her to stand quietly. Those few secondds I was backing her up. I will note and must stress that she NEVER EVER pulls faces or pulls her ears back at me. Last week she pinned her ears when i was brushing her sore spot and she was telling me she didnt like it. But she also did the exact same thing to the chiro as well.

The only time she will ever pull faces like that to me is when correcting her. She doesnt do it all the time. I think its more of a correcting thing than a backing up thing because if I just tell her to back by giving like pressure on the lead or on her chest, she will never EVER give me the side eye.

Last edited by Hoofpic; 12-06-2015 at 11:04 PM.
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post #1295 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 11:00 PM
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When you are brushing her, and she gives you the "side eye" as you call it, that is level one. It means quit whatever you are doing. Then , level 2, she swings her head around with her ears back. It means QUIT, I SAID. She proceeds to level 3, pinning her ears, swinging her head...that means CAN YOU NOT HEAR ME?? QUIT, I SAID!!
Level 4 is with the teeth, level 5 is charging at you with the mouth open.(I made those levels up as illustrations...don't go trying to label anything you do by them, please)

When there is a correction for bad behavior(and what you DID was NO WHERE NEAR a correction for that offense at MY barn!!), there is NO praise. There IS a return to previous position, and continuation of the interrupted activity.

I would have marched her backwards about to that open gate at about 15 miles per hour. I would have been running! And the first 15 feet would have included yanking on the leadrope HARD.

You are creating a monster.....classic green +green = black and blue. Sorry.
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post #1296 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 11:01 PM
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Hoofpic, when your horse moves forward, don't move her back according to how many she went forward. Back her up four or five strides. The bring her forward to where she was standing and resume grooming. When she moves again, back her even farther than the first time. You may need to do it a third time, which will be farther and faster but you are teaching her there's a consequence for not standing still. Backing up goes against a horse's conformation so it's tiring. And do not talk to the horse and do not pet/love on her. Her reward is when you allow her to stop going backwards. She's a horse, not a toddler. You call a slice of hay a biscuit, in NA its a flake. But a person who's socially inept might be dubbed a flake.



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post #1297 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by greentree View Post

You are creating a monster.....classic green +green = black and blue. Sorry.
This is sadly true, no one can help not knowing, we all started out not knowing anything, but we learnt, and THEN we got a horse when we had the skills to cope, to some extent. We are all learning, but sadly the OP is so lacking in foundation, that this young mare is going to end up paying the price. A well behaved, well trained, nice minded older horse, would not be taking advantage like this..
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post #1298 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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When you are brushing her, and she gives you the "side eye" as you call it, that is level one. It means quit whatever you are doing. Then , level 2, she swings her head around with her ears back. It means QUIT, I SAID. She proceeds to level 3, pinning her ears, swinging her head...that means CAN YOU NOT HEAR ME?? QUIT, I SAID!!
Level 4 is with the teeth, level 5 is charging at you with the mouth open.(I made those levels up as illustrations...don't go trying to label anything you do by them, please)
Are you saying she did all 5 of these things in th video? or are these just general examples from you?

Quote:
When there is a correction for bad behavior(and what you DID was NO WHERE NEAR a correction for that offense at MY barn!!), there is NO praise. There IS a return to previous position, and continuation of the interrupted activity.
I didnt correct because i didnt think her giving me the side eye was a bad behaviour. Like I said, I inquired about this specific thing about a month ago on here but I put it off after someone mentioned how their horse does it with them as well from time to time.

Quote:
I would have marched her backwards about to that open gate at about 15 miles per hour. I would have been running! And the first 15 feet would have included yanking on the leadrope HARD.
For giving the side eye?

Quote:
You are creating a monster.....classic green +green = black and blue. Sorry.
Why do you say Im creating a monster? Are you giving up on me?
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post #1299 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
This is sadly true, no one can help not knowing, we all started out not knowing anything, but we learnt, and THEN we got a horse when we had the skills to cope, to some extent. We are all learning, but sadly the OP is so lacking in foundation, that this young mare is going to end up paying the price. A well behaved, well trained, nice minded older horse, would not be taking advantage like this..
But Im still learning though.

I think if anything it was a wise decision for me to make that video yesterday. If I didnt, I wouldnt have known about her side eye is a bad behaviour.
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post #1300 of 1323 Old 12-06-2015, 11:18 PM
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GH, you are right, we all started somewhere, but I don't know about you, when I started, there was no shame in selling a horse that we could not handle, or selling one we had outgrown, either physically or training wise. Now, we are shamed into thinking that horses need a " forever home", which does NOT equal " best home for horse", or "safest thing for person".

Hoofpic, your mare also needs a one size larger for winter halter. The red one is tighter than it should be.
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