A couple questions - Page 21 - The Horse Forum
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post #201 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enh817 View Post
Perhaps try being a little more direct with the barn owner... when he asked about the videoing, I would've just ask him, was he not comfortable with that? If he's not, ask him how he would feel about you not showing your friend and just using it for yourself. It would be a shame if you weren't allowed to film yourself anymore, because, as you're discovering, it's an invaluable way to be able to see yourself from another perspective.
I didnt ask if he was uncomfortable with it because he asked so obviously it was an issue to him. He came across as annoyed, which is a shame that I wont be able to continue recording because I learn from a much different point of view than with my trainer.

Another thing that came across my mind last night on why he perhaps doesnt want me to record, is because he has a trainer. He might feel that because I have a trainer, use her when I need advice or want someone to give me their opinion on my technique. No outside people because he might see it as a threat in terms of their business and how much they make off me from training me.

You know what, it was my fault for not asking him first if it was ok. I should apologize to him this morning when I see him.

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I have used treats to try to help her make good associations with me, so that she doesn't think of my presence as a terrible thing. She has also required a good amount of doctoring since I've had her, and I've had to do things that I know cause her pain. Obviously, she can't deduct that what I'm doing is good for her, even though it hurts. So like, right now she has some rope burn that I know hurts a lot when I have to put topical stuff on it. So I give her a carrot to munch on, while I'm tending to the wounds, in hopes that it will distract her some and also keep her from thinking I'm evil causing her all that pain.
I do see a situation like that where treating would really help the horse get through it. Same with if you are teaching or getting them to do something tney have trouble with, treating gives them more incentive and motivation on doing what you ask of them even though they have difficulty with it. Then once they get more comfortable with the task, quit the treat.

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Tomorrow I will pick one of the horses that maybe isn't super solid on leading and try the things you've done in your videos, while videoing myself, so you can have another example to look at.
Oh that would be awesome if you could do this! Thank you so much.
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post #202 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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I got great news!!!! Im so happy! Had a talk with the BO and he said he doesnt care if i tape myself! Yay to more videos from me! I jist told him how i like to observe myself afterwards cause i pick up stuff i wouldnt have during it and he said he totally understands.

Had my lesson this morning on leading. Some good and bad stuff but will go in detail later.
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post #203 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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The BO truly is a great man. Whenever i think hes upset with me, he isnt. Its just how he expresses himself at times, that may come across that way.

He said if it was him, he would tape himself too and he is all for it if it means it helps my learning. Yay!!!
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post #204 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 03:56 PM
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That is great to hear!! Some people are really hard to read, which is why I suggested just being a little more up front with him. In the future, if you think he might be upset about something, just say something like 'I feel like you're upset about me doing this or that, is it not okay?' that way you can tell exactly where he and you stand and save yourself a lot of unnecessary stress and anxiety :)
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post #205 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enh817 View Post
That is great to hear!! Some people are really hard to read, which is why I suggested just being a little more up front with him. In the future, if you think he might be upset about something, just say something like 'I feel like you're upset about me doing this or that, is it not okay?' that way you can tell exactly where he and you stand and save yourself a lot of unnecessary stress and anxiety :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enh817 View Post
That is great to hear!! Some people are really hard to read, which is why I suggested just being a little more up front with him. In the future, if you think he might be upset about something, just say something like 'I feel like you're upset about me doing this or that, is it not okay?' that way you can tell exactly where he and you stand and save yourself a lot of unnecessary stress and anxiety :)
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Well i went to him and said sorry for not asking if a camera on his property was ok and he said hes doesnt mind at all. He said he understands the modern day on jist how some people prefer to learn and even though its not very common for a boarder to record on tape them working with their horse, he is open to it because its just the modern day how some people like to learn. He is all for it he said because there is a lot of stuff that happens with your horse but you wont see at the time but you will after.

Im so happy and relieved.recording myself really does help me learn.
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post #206 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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On the other hand, my trainer is not too happy about how i was taught things, and not taught things in my past training. I have a lot of adjustments to make and she pointed out a lot of things in todays lesson.

She says i need to buckle down and if im good and consistent, i can earn my horses respect within 2 weeks. I told her my goal was by christmas but she said i can do it in 2 weeks if i make her adjustments and do the exact same stuff every time i handle her.

Ill list exactly what she said later.
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post #207 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 07:51 PM
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On the other hand, my trainer is not too happy about how i was taught things, and not taught things in my past training. I have a lot of adjustments to make and she pointed out a lot of things in todays lesson.

She says i need to buckle down and if im good and consistent, i can earn my horses respect within 2 weeks. I told her my goal was by christmas but she said i can do it in 2 weeks if i make her adjustments and do the exact same stuff every time i handle her.

Ill list exactly what she said later.
".....do the exact same stuff....."

THIS!! Horse are creatures of habit/routine. I feel, from reading your posts, you don't approach a problem the same way consistently....day in and day out. If your mare acts confused, this is why. No consistency.

I could be wrong since I'm not there watching, but just from reading your distributions of your interactions with your mare I feel confused, so your mare may to!
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post #208 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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This is what my trainer said to do. Its a long one sorry.

Yes Sarah, she said first and fore most, because I have switched trainers so much and learned from so many different backgrounds, that I have hindered my learning because Im constantly relearning stuff and its confusing my mare. Now its time to buckle down and focus on earning her respect for good.

I originally told her my goal is to have her respect by Christmas, she said if I do every adjustment she said every time I see her, everytime I handle her, there should be no excuse as to why I cant have her respect me by 2 weeks from now.

So there you have it, my goal is to have her respect within 2 weeks from now. Halloween.

She does believe that my mare is trying her best and is acting out of frustration and confusion more than anything. She says its not my fault because I wasnt able to pin point exactly what was instructed to me incorrectly from past trainers and what was not taught to me.

My trainer knows that my mare tests me everyday, she said its up to me get my timing right and correct her. She said if I cant correct her within 2 secs of her bad action, dont bother. Do it next time.

She asked why I like to use such a long lead (15ft) and I told her and she said I need to go back to my 8ft leads, mainly because I dont need this much length and if I have to lunge her, 8ft should be long enough and 15ft is probably not the best length for when lunging a horse because I shouldnt need to swing that much rope around.

She suggested me a book to read, Im getting the name off her again. Wasnt able to write it down.

She said the sooner I can be more consistent, the quicker she will respect me and she will be much better behaved when handling her. She also does believe that (BO as well) that what she needs right now is to be in a herd. She feels the sooner she is put in a herd, the better she will be. She will be put in a herd anyday now, what im expecting to be sometime next week. Im excited, Ive been wanting this so bad for her for so long! She will be better in a herd because she will be able to make friends and be a horse.

So she said she wants to see me handle her so we went outside.

I told her what happened on Thurs night and she said that I should not lunge her to correct her but in my case I didnt know. But now I know not to lunge her like that again when correcting her, if ever at all.

What she wants me to do is eat up all the slack in the lead, circle her in two tight circles away from me, while putting mild pressure on the lead away from me. If she tries to block me or resist, up my pressure on the lead. But she said essentially if I make myself big, big chest, shoulders up, head up, look to where you are going, I should be able to drive her from mostly my body language alone.]

She said to NEVER EVER turn to my side when leading. Always away from me. Is this true? How come no trainer or anyone has ever mentioned this to me? She said, always lead to her side because if I lead her into my side, its telling her that she has the power and is moving me even though shes on a lead. She said to make up for this switch sides more as far as which side im leading her on. She said because Ive been always letting her lead into my side, it told her that she can lead me and is confused.

Now, my mare has this really bad habit (and perhaps it came from me turning her into my side), she will always try to circle around me. We can be standing still and she will just start to circle me. Trainer said to NEVER do this because its telling her that she has more power than me by circling me. She said she never lets any horse circle her and within 2 secs, to do 2 tight Circles in opposite direction by eating up slack in lead and putting lead pressure in that direction. If she fights and tries to block me keep going, put more pressure on lead. Keep head and shoulders up, and drive her with body language.

When turning into her direction, try slowing my pace before going into the turn.

When she isnt being corrected, and I want to turn to her side, drive with body language (shoulders and head) and firm walk. my trainer showed me this and she can pretty much lead her away from her with no pressure on the lead. She said that there should be absolutely zero pressure in the lead when leading away from you and the lead should be free. Whats driving her over is her body language.

She said the only reason why you are putting pressure on the lead (away from you) when correcting her and doing 2 tight circles (with minimal forward movement) is because you are doing much tighter circles and you can driving her head and neck away from you.

Use the "And" que all the time, "and woah"..."and walk", use on lungeline as well. She does it and says it just lets them know that theyre about to be sent a que.

Dont woah with her so abruptly. Be a lot softer in my body language and with my feet.

When leading, keep head and eyes looking ahead but monitor where he head is and if shes falling behind me, swing outside arm behind me to get her to keep pace up with me. She doesnt want me to hit her with the lead, just swing my arm behind me and she sees it. We tried it a bunch today and she reacted. Sometimes it took a few times but she responded.

Trainer basically wants me to be a lot softer and gentlier when giving her my first que. She said im too rough and because my mare is really sensitive, it doesnt take a lot to get her to respond.

If she rears, wait for her feet to come back to the ground, then circle her in two tight circles. She said this is what she would have done on Thurs night. And she would have ended it after the 2nd circle, no lunging. She said anything more than 2 circles is pointless as it falls outside that correction window and it wont send them any message except them wondering why theyre doing it. 2 circles thats it, no matter the severity of the bad act from my mare.

No sniffing the ground or anything allowed when shes on a lead. Just put very lite pressure on the lead to get her back up or back to where she was.

If we are standing, she is not allowed to change which side she stands to me. Correct by bringing her back to where she was with light pressure on the lead.

---

Im still typing up all these adjustments in my checklist, but I have to say that (even though I worked on it with my trainer so she could assess and critique), I am still a bit nervous when leading her AWAY from me because she will still and always will try to block me like what you saw in my video a couple nights ago at the 4min mark!!!!

Trainer got me to lead my mare to exactly where it happened and got me to show her what she would do. She saw it, and she said because of the spot where I was leading her, my mare was a bit uncomfortable with the bushes on my left (hence why she was trying to get ahead of me) so she said that I need to anticipate it ahead of time so that as we get near these bushes, I pick up my pace so that shes not able to get ahead of me. She said drive with shoulders and body language, eat up all the slack on the lead and apply pressure on the lead AWAY from me so that I steer her AWAY from me. She said that as much as my mare wants to resist, I need to steer her away from me. If she tries to speed up and block me and gets aggressive, I need to apply more and more and more and more pressure on the lead away from me.

She said when I apply pressure on the lead away from me or even back (to get her to slow down), do a couple quick nudges on the lead, then release. Only apply constant pressure on the lead if i need to apply heavy pressure.

Now she said, IF she does manage to get ahead of me by even a step, immediately correct her by doing 2 tight circles AWAY from me with pressure on the lead AWAY from me.

Listen, I really dont want to get in a fighting match with my mare, I really dont. It frustrates her for no reason (when its easily avoidable) and its bad for my safety. 950lbs vs 150lbs, Im outmatched. I just want to be able to lead her AWAY from me safely with her NOT blocking me! And considering now that Im not allowed to lead her INTO me and only AWAY from me, it makes this challenge that much bigger because I will be going into her direction all the time, every single time.
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Last edited by Hoofpic; 10-17-2015 at 08:57 PM.
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post #209 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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The biggest thing trainer says is that I need to anticipate when shes about to speed up and pick up my pace a second before she does and drive her away from me. If Im not able to anticipate on time and she manages to get ahead of me, immediately correct her by doing two tight circles away from me.

And thats the thing, leading her AWAY from me is one thing. Sometimes she will be nice and I can lead her AWAY from me with no pressure on the lead - great, this is what I want, every single time. But other times, she will get fiesty and say no, "you are not coming into my side" and she will block me, speed up to get ahead of me. Trainer says shes doing this because shes trying to tell me she is the leader and is saying "Im not letting you get into my side"

But its another thing doing two tight circles with her AWAY from me, because she wont let me and really tries to fight me. Today we did a quick experiment where I would get her to stand next to me. Trainer was there watching and in 4 or 5 mins, she tried about 12 times to (just randomly) circle around me. And every single time I got on her right away and did two tight circles away from me. I had to apply some seriously insane pressure on the lead away from me to get her to go (which is not what I wanted) but trainer says if she fights me, I apply more and more pressure on the lead regardless if she likes it or not.

The 3rd time I did this, she started licking and chewing after each time I finished that 2nd circle. I thought, okay awesome, shes starting to get my message to stop trying to circle me. But she kept trying it over and over again! I ended up correcting her a dozen times. Then I called it a day and said no more correcting and it was it for the day. If I stood there all day with her, I would be correcting her a thousand times.
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post #210 of 1323 Old 10-17-2015, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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A few things I wanted to add.

Trainer says that as long as I correct her in those 2 tight circles and lead her away from me with a firm nice paced walk and with authority, I should be able to get her to move without having to elbow her. She doesnt want me to elbow her because she said i shouldnt need to. If needed extend my arm out or stick my elbow out but if i elbow her and too soon, its too much pressure on her too soon and this is why she will rear.

Gaurenteed if I elbow her (even softly) when leading her away from me and shes fighting me, she will rear.

From doing it today, I find its all in your walk. Pick up your pace when circling them, walk like youre on a mission and that should be the main achor in moving her.

Trainer says she wants me to go back to at least a soft rope halter. Shes not a fan of the stiff rope halter Im using with more pressure points. She says that she uses my nylon halter on her when she leads her in when riding her and shes fine. Well ya, but shes a trainer. But me, there is no way i could use her nylon halter on my horse (she would ignore my ques) and besides I find nylon halters too big, heavy and clunky on their heads where rope halters are thin and light and doesnt eat up half of their face.

Funny because at the old barn, every boarder used rope halters. Very few nylon. Just abotu everyone prefered rope.

At the new barn, everyone uses nylon and Im the only one who uses rope. Obviously my trainer will use rope halters for ground work and lunging but thats the only time she will use them. I told her how me using this stiff halter on my horse is only temporary. I get the best response from her in it. She doesnt fight as much when in it because she knows the extra discomfort it puts on her when she does because of the extra pressure points. Over time i am hoping to retire this halter and only use the soft rope halter on her.
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