A couple questions - Page 75 - The Horse Forum
 1109Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #741 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 08:26 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,381
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
greentree,


When you see me leading her away from me after she joined up with me, is this not a different horse from the video I posted a month ago or her blocking me? (Not going to sound negative, but instead optimistic), IF this is indeed a permanent change in her, then I am sitting here in oughs and awhs in the change in her.

This is exactly how she now leads when I have her with her halter on. I only lead her AWAY from me. Yes Im having to change her sides an awful lot, but this is just something for the better for the both of us (as my trainer suggested). PS. My trainer doesnt know of this change in her yet, I havent told her, she hasnt asked me lately on any updates on my mare and I. I have a feeling she still thinks things are still a mess between my mare and I.

It might be the herd that I have to thank, perhaps they set her straight to result in this change, not me.
I saw a happy horse.....the trainer may not notice any change, because these changes are subtle, and a combination of your mind and the horse's. And the herd really had little to do with it, IMO. You have established yourself as trustworthy, and that is the difference.

I do not think I ever got to watch the other video....I saw the one where the horse ate the camera, but that is it. I do not have much internet at my house....
jenkat86 and Hoofpic like this.
greentree is offline  
post #742 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5,044
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by greentree View Post
I saw a happy horse.....the trainer may not notice any change, because these changes are subtle, and a combination of your mind and the horse's.
Well my trainer hasnt really been asking me lately, in fact shes never asked me ever how things are between my mare and I unless I bring it up. Personally (and not saying this is a bad thing), but I dont think she really cares about how things are between my mare and I and whether or not she respects me. She is very busy, has her own company and does a lot of lessons on a weekly basis. All she focuses on with me is training my mare and getting my riding form and technique down pat and work from there.

I feel if she did care about the relationship between my mare and I, she would ask but she hasnt.

Like I said, I have a bold feeling that my trainer still believes that things between my mare and I are at a standstill and we havent moved forward since our lesson a month ago on leading. One of the mother and daughters who comes to ride at the barn for lessons with her, asked her last week how my mare is doing. I was in the barn just a couple stalls away from her so I heard. Why she didnt ask me how shes doing (since im her owner) was puzzling. But anyways, my trainer replied "uhh shes doing ok"

That response just kind of caught my attention. "Just ok?"

Like I said, my trainer doesnt stay nearly as informed and updated as you guys on here do. Because i talk to you guys constantly on a daily basis. I talk to my trainer maybe once or twice a week, if that and its primarily during our lessons.

Quote:
And the herd really had little to do with it, IMO. You have established yourself as trustworthy, and that is the difference.
Ok thats good, but I do feel the herd had a factor especially since this change in her Ive been seeing since she entered the herd. Coincedental? Perhaps. It could be a bunch of factors put together but I do truly believe giving her a handful of days off over the past week is one of them.

Quote:
I do not think I ever got to watch the other video....I saw the one where the horse ate the camera, but that is it. I do not have much internet at my house....
So you can see what im talking about, here is a clip from about 3.5weeks ago. Holy does time ever fly by!

Watch at the 3:55-4:02 mark.


Last edited by Hoofpic; 11-12-2015 at 09:33 AM.
Hoofpic is offline  
post #743 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 09:32 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 1,067
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Because I cant tell if she respects me again or not and working in the roundpen re-establishes who is the leader and builds trust. It establishes a bond of communication and trust.
Every interaction you have with your horse establishes respect or trust. Horses can subtlety test you and if you don't have constant awareness it will escalate to more overt actions. Just taking one tiny step into your space uninvited can be a test. Pulling a foot away when you are holding it, moving around when grooming or tacking up, moving away from your touch, all are little tests a horse will throw at you. Too many to list.

If you stay aware and don't let little things bloom into big things, you will not have to keep going back to the round pen. And just because your mare "joins up" in the round pen doesn't mean it will necessarily carry over into other areas.

Not saying that going back to lunging isn't sometimes necessary.
Hoofpic likes this.
Whinnie is offline  
post #744 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5,044
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whinnie View Post
Every interaction you have with your horse establishes respect or trust.
Yes Im aware of this and its one of those facts that stay on the back of my mind.

Quote:
Horses can subtlety test you and if you don't have constant awareness it will escalate to more overt actions. Just taking one tiny step into your space uninvited can be a test. Pulling a foot away when you are holding it, moving around when grooming or tacking up, moving away from your touch, all are little tests a horse will throw at you. Too many to list.
She still tests me. I have a much better eye now for looking out for these things and not letting them slide.

My mare is drastically better but she will still shift side to side from time to time when grooming her in the barn. I always move her back right away to where she stepped from.

She does have a couple tendanecies though where

1) She will move away when i try to pick up her front feet to clean. Her back she are fine. I tell her "woah" and "stand" but she will still try to keep stepping away when i reach for her foot. Never had this problem at the old barn, just started recently.

2) SOmetimes when im cleaing her hoofs she will get impatient and try to pull away. But i always do my best to hold on and not let go. But at the old barn, one time she kept trying to pull and pull and i kept holding on but eventually she was putting weight into that leg and her leg went crashing down on the barn floor (from about 1.5ft or so). Not hard but still, crashing down on concrete barn floor isnt good period. Checked for bruising or soreness after and walked her a bit and thankfully she was fine. I was really worried.

So thats obviously something i dont want happening again. If she pulls, I will hold on but if I feel her weight coming into that one leg, then i will let go instead so that she doesnt have her leg come crashing down again (its not worth risking an injury), and then ill just whack her real hard on the belly to let her know to smarten up. This is what one of my past trainers would do.

Quote:
If you stay aware and don't let little things bloom into big things, you will not have to keep going back to the round pen. And just because your mare "joins up" in the round pen doesn't mean it will necessarily carry over into other areas.

Not saying that going back to lunging isn't sometimes necessary.
I enjoy roundpenning a lot more than lunging on a line. I think it could be beneficial on occasion (and yesterday was essentially the first time i lunged her in a month and roundpenned her in 3 months) so thats a good worthwhile break for her from a mental standpoint.

This is why my #1 goal right now is to be able to read her better and better as time goes on, thus allowing us to communicate better and have a closer bond. The better you can communicate with your horse, the closer bond you will have.
Hoofpic is offline  
post #745 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 10:02 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,978
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by greentree View Post
I saw a happy horse.....the trainer may not notice any change, because these changes are subtle, and a combination of your mind and the horse's.
Well my trainer hasnt really been asking me lately, in fact shes never asked me ever how things are between my mare and I unless I bring it up. Personally (and not saying this is a bad thing), but I dont think she really cares about how things are between my mare and I and whether or not she respects me. She is very busy, has her own company and does a lot of lessons on a weekly basis. All she focuses on with me is training my mare and getting my riding form and technique down pat and work from there.

I feel if she did care about the relationship between my mare and I, she would ask but she hasnt.

Like I said, I have a bold feeling that my trainer still believes that things between my mare and I are at a standstill and we havent moved forward since our lesson a month ago on leading. One of the mother and daughters who comes to ride at the barn for lessons with her, asked her last week how my mare is doing. I was in the barn just a couple stalls away from her so I heard. Why she didnt ask me how shes doing (since im her owner) was puzzling. But anyways, my trainer replied "uhh shes doing ok"

That response just kind of caught my attention. "Just ok?"

Like I said, my trainer doesnt stay nearly as informed and updated as you guys on here do. Because i talk to you guys constantly on a daily basis. I talk to my trainer maybe once or twice a week, if that and its primarily during our lessons.

Quote:
And the herd really had little to do with it, IMO. You have established yourself as trustworthy, and that is the difference.
Ok thats good, but I do feel the herd had a factor especially since this change in her Ive been seeing since she entered the herd. Coincedental? Perhaps. It could be a bunch of factors put together but I do truly believe giving her a handful of days off over the past week is one of them.

Quote:
I do not think I ever got to watch the other video....I saw the one where the horse ate the camera, but that is it. I do not have much internet at my house....
So you can see what im talking about, here is a clip from about 3.5weeks ago. Holy does time ever fly by!

Watch at the 3:55-4:02 mark.

One thing that catches my eye in this um is that you say that we on the internet are more updated and informed then your trainer... In my opinion it should be the other way round whether she asks or not. How often does she see you with your mare?

I had a trainer who worked with me 2 days a week with my gelding and she never once asked me how things were between my gelding and I because she knew by the way I acted when I spoke about it or the way my attitude was in general.
Hoofpic likes this.
Rainaisabelle is offline  
post #746 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5,044
• Horses: 0
Upon viewing it again, the only thing I wish I did was reward her each time she stopped when I got her to woah by turning in my shoulder. Yes she just learned this for the very first time a month ago, and she learned incredibly quickly, but still....she did what I asked and I should be rewarding each time right?

At 5:16 - I was changing her direction but she stopped for a second before i threw down the whip because i was distracted by the BO coming around again. Not making excuses here cause i know distractions is something we all need to deal with every now and then, but yesterday was a learning experience for both of us in paying extra attention to each other with all the distractions around us. The good thing is that im pretty good at tuning out distractions in a general standpoint, its just the more hands on experience I get at the barn handling distractions with my horse, the more used to it ill get.

I notice one thing that I really need to work on (and I think its a big one) is that I need to stop giving a **** about what others around us at the time think. If I want to talk to my mare like as if shes a person, then so be it. But I notice that i get this feeling where if im doing something with my mare and all of a sudden other people come in and are nearby, I become too attentive in them seeing what im doing. So i then think to myself "ok I wont talk to her as much"...."or I better watch what im saying"


Also, Im watching it again and I STILL feel that kick out from her was directed towards me.

At 13:46 - when I brought in her cubes to feed her and was teaching her to stand and she wont get fed until she stands. Do you think i should have been much more aggressive when getting her back? She tried to get to the food by putting her head forward and I would back her up.

If this was one of my past trainers, once her head goes forward for the bucket, she would have whacked her on her muzzle and really hard. And upon entering the pen, she would have chased her way back by aggresively waving her arms. Could I have done that? Yes, but I didnt think it was nessecary because i felt i could just get her to back by giving her the light amount of pressure. Even though i had to say it a few times, as you can see, i eventually pressed lightly on her chest while stepping into her and she backed off.

One thing i really want to teach her is a verbal cue of "back" means back up. She doesnt know it if i was to just say "back". Is this something that would be hard to teach her? I think this would be very useful to have.

Last edited by Hoofpic; 11-12-2015 at 10:20 AM.
Hoofpic is offline  
post #747 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 10:24 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,381
• Horses: 0
The release IS the reward!! She does NOT require petting or whatever every time she does something basic like this.

The video will not load right now...I will try later.

Nothing is difficult to teach a horse. Just establish the behavior, release when you get it, and add the command. So to teach back....give a few snaps on the halter, with increasing intensity until she takes even one PART of a step backwards, drop your arms and relax. That is her reward. Do it again, Etc., EXPECTING her to do it with less pressure each time.

Last edited by greentree; 11-12-2015 at 10:30 AM.
greentree is offline  
post #748 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5,044
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainaisabelle View Post
One thing that catches my eye in this um is that you say that we on the internet are more updated and informed then your trainer... In my opinion it should be the other way round whether she asks or not. How often does she see you with your mare?
It wasnt so much about my trainer saying "ok" when asked how my mare was doing, but her stalling for a second in not knowing how to reply was what caught my attention. It showed that she was a bit out of the loop as to how my mare is doing (aside from how she is when she rides her). But realistically, when someone asks how a horse is doing, its how the horse is doing with the owner, not so much the trainer because at the end of the day, thats what it all comes down to - the relationship between the owner and the horse, not the trainer and the horse. The trainer is just a helping hand to get the horse to where the owner wants them to be.

Yes I agree it should be the other way around, that my trainer should be more informed and updated than you guys are (not that I dont enjoy learning from you guys, I really do get a lot from spending my time on here interacting with this great community). Would I be here today, having made these big positive steps with my mare over the past couple months if it wasnt for you guys? Not a chance. Not a chance. Thats how much Ive relied and learned from you guys.

The difference between this community and my trainer is that my trainer I get limited time with per week cause, 1) Her availability and 2) Obviously my budget, and seeing how my mares training is taking up a good chunk of it every month. I get information from here constantly throughout the day, everyday, I am constantly pulling advice, key pointers and learning from you guys. In the two months Ive been at the new barn, I have had 2 lessons with my trainer and my mare, TWO.

The first was lunging (within the first week arriving) and this was more of her getting to know my mare since it was her first time working with her, and the second was leading (a month ago). Dont get me wrong, she still taught me some really valuable stuff in those two lessons. She quickly pinpointed what I was taught incorrectly from past trainers and got me to drop those methods and instantly implement her methods. but for the most part, I took her advice, implemented them into my goal plan, meshed it with advice from you guys and worked on it on my own on a daily basis.

My trainer sees me with my mare maybe 3-5 times a week as she is not there everyday (shes there about 4-5 days a week) depending on her schedule. If she has other stuff going on, she may only be there 3-4 times a week.

And now that Im no longer going to the barn everyday, its less that we run into each other but not a huge drop off.

It used to be 4-6 times a week that she would see me but now 3-4 Id say.

I have nothing bad to say about her, she is fantastic learning from and Im blown away in terms of how well she communicates with me during our lessons. Its not so much about how well she communicates but her attitude. She is incredibly positive and i would say in some ways inspiring. The first time I got in the saddle again with her teaching, I felt at such ease because of how well she communicated with me.

I can understand her standpoint in solely focusing on me riding when im doing riding lessons with her. Why should she have to ask about my mare and how things are going between us when shes out in the field right? Though I was caught a bit off guard and more so surprised that she hasnt inquired since our last lesson with my mare a month ago.

Last edited by Hoofpic; 11-12-2015 at 10:51 AM.
Hoofpic is offline  
post #749 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5,044
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainaisabelle View Post
I had a trainer who worked with me 2 days a week with my gelding and she never once asked me how things were between my gelding and I because she knew by the way I acted when I spoke about it or the way my attitude was in general.
Interesting. So Im guessing you had a negative attitude when speaking with that trainer about your gelding?

One thing I am immediately starting to change is forgetting about whats happened with my mare and I in the past.

She used to fuss and toss head when being unhaltered. She doesnt anymore so I do not expect her to fuss or even remotely think about her fussing again.

She used to refuse to yield her FQ to me when leading and would speed up and block me from getting her to step away from me. (Still early) but over the past few times handling her, she hasnt been doing this anymore so I will no expect her to do it anymore or remote think about it.

Like Greentree said, if I am thinking that she will do it again, my mare will know it. So time to write off the old ship and ride a new one from here on in. And like Drafty said, its not fair to my mare to hold the grudge against her. She has shown 180 degree improvements in both these situations so i only owe it to my mare to not think about her past old behaviour.

Does this sound fair and reasonable?
Hoofpic is offline  
post #750 of 1323 Old 11-12-2015, 11:15 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,978
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainaisabelle View Post
I had a trainer who worked with me 2 days a week with my gelding and she never once asked me how things were between my gelding and I because she knew by the way I acted when I spoke about it or the way my attitude was in general.
Interesting. So Im guessing you had a negative attitude when speaking with that trainer about your gelding?

One thing I am immediately starting to change is forgetting about whats happened with my mare and I in the past.

She used to fuss and toss head when being unhaltered. She doesnt anymore so I do not expect her to fuss or even remotely think about her fussing again.

She used to refuse to yield her FQ to me when leading and would speed up and block me from getting her to step away from me. (Still early) but over the past few times handling her, she hasnt been doing this anymore so I will no expect her to do it anymore or remote think about it.

Like Greentree said, if I am thinking that she will do it again, my mare will know it. So time to write off the old ship and ride a new one from here on in. And like Drafty said, its not fair to my mare to hold the grudge against her. She has shown 180 degree improvements in both these situations so i only owe it to my mare to not think about her past old behaviour.

Does this sound fair and reasonable?
No I was always very positive about my gelding he's never done anything for me to think otherwise. I mean don't get me wrong we still have our days but they are few and far between now that his life has changed for the better. But if we are having a bad day or things just aren't going our way then she knows about it before we even have a lesson.

I am not really sure where the past fits into this post but I am glad you've realised that. What I was trying to get across was maybe she doesn't ask because she already knows. People who are having positive experiences usually walk and talk with more confidence and enthusiasm then people who aren't doing so well.
Rainaisabelle is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A couple questions. helterskelter Horse Nutrition 2 07-03-2013 04:38 PM
I have a couple questions..... WesternRider88 Draft Horses 10 06-11-2013 03:17 PM
Just a couple of questions TheMayoMat Horse Health 14 10-24-2012 10:44 PM
A couple of questions. Wes70 Horse Training 6 09-18-2012 07:45 PM
Couple of questions Solon Horse Forum Support Help Desk 1 02-08-2010 05:44 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome