A couple questions - Page 94 - The Horse Forum
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post #931 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainaisabelle View Post
This is all so complicated ...

Pick up the foot the way you normally clean it and if she does it calmly give her a pat and say good girl. If you know she's going to paw grab the foot before she paws hold it for a second until she relaxes put it down.

Do it once for each foot ending on a good note.
I know but I thought we were starting off in small steps, as in rewarding small efforts.

Remember though, its not just her picking up the hoof but her picking it up willingly and keeping the weight off me willingly because her keeping the weight off that leg when its up is just as important as getting it up.

Cause if she lifts to paw and I grab her hoof, but shes putting the weight on that leg. You really want to reward her for that?

Sorry I dont mean to make this super complicated but I just want to be sure I am not rewarding for the wrong things.
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post #932 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Whinnie View Post
You asked this same question several times and have gotten the same responses from several posters.
Im asking this just to be extra sure, because this routine is a lot different than the previous 2 things I taught her and got her to change in the way I wanted her to. We are essentially dealing with 2 different things here, her lifing her hoof up willingly, (also keeping it up willingly) and pawing.

Now if she didnt paw while I did this, then it would be a lot simplified but unfortunately thats not the case so I have to adjust accordingly to the situation.

I stand next to her, I start to bend over, she starts to paw before I even give any que.
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post #933 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 10:14 AM
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Hoof pic, she gets a break every time you leave. She is a beast of burden. In normal situations, where horses are kept on LARGE acreage, they walk MANY miles every day.
The work horses here wear the harness AND buggy ALL day, the same as you have your car at the ready.

She has no concept of 24 hours. The gastric juices are the only thing that tells her what time it is, time to eat, and that is only if the horse is fed on a schedule. In a large pasture, they do not even have that, as they graze regularly.

Have you ever seen horses actually WORK? Getting a horse and putting a halter on does not constitute work.
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post #934 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofpic View Post
Im asking this just to be extra sure, because this routine is a lot different than the previous 2 things I taught her and got her to change in the way I wanted her to. We are essentially dealing with 2 different things here, her lifing her hoof up willingly, (also keeping it up willingly) and pawing.

Now if she didnt paw while I did this, then it would be a lot simplified but unfortunately thats not the case so I have to adjust accordingly to the situation.

I stand next to her, I start to bend over, she starts to paw before I even give any que.
THAT is because she KNOWS what you are going to DO...ask her to pick up her FOOT.

Grab it, hold a second, let it go, tell her to "put it down". (This command may come in handy later). If she doesn't put it down, put your hand on her withers and pull slightly towards you. This will get her to shift her weight and put it down.
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post #935 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 10:28 AM
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Just a thought, but are you more of a sight learner (hands on)? It may be that you need someone right there to coach you through as you watch and then practice so YOU can be corrected. It shouldn't be this hard.

You are totally confusing yourself by dissecting every answer with "what if". Why not try the advice given and see how it goes. If something THEN pops up, ask about it. You cannot cover every scenario. Stop worrying about doing it perfectly the first time for Pete's sake!
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post #936 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 11:19 AM
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Honestly OP, you're trying to be perfect and it isn't going to happen. You can get close to perfect but it won't be perfect. Just do it and stop worrying OR GET YOUR TRAINER you may only pay her for riding but I am sure if you asked her she will help. Internet people can't help all the time especially if we can't see every time you do it.
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post #937 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 12:29 PM
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You're obsessing over "teaching" her stuff she already knows how to do. She knows how to pick up her feet, she's not a young foal or an unhandled horse. You are just nagging her. If you need to pick up her feet to clean them, do it. If she's not doing it politely, correct matter of factly and go on. She doesn't need extended training sessions on what she can do already. Same with haltering. Putting a halter on and off is not necessary "training" for a horse that already knows that. It is not work. It is what horses who are stalled overnight do every morning in a matter of 20 seconds as they are taken out of their stalls and turned out in the field. And then they do it again every afternoon when they are led from the field to the stalls. Sure, you have to maintain that training by insisting on manners, but you are drilling her on things she already knows. This is not a problem horse that needs to be restarted with the basics. She is a smart, pleasant, generally compliant young horse that is ready to progress, not be soured by being nagged to death after she gives the right answer but is then made to repeat over and over.

Whether you need training on these things is a totally different matter, and of course it's acceptable to practice and learn, but it clearly needs to happen under the supervision of someone who can give you in-the-moment feedback and show you how to fix your mistakes. But just be clear that that practice is for you to understand how to ask correctly, not to nag your poor horse to death.
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post #938 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrogan View Post
You're obsessing over "teaching" her stuff she already knows how to do. She knows how to pick up her feet, she's not a young foal or an unhandled horse. You are just nagging her. If you need to pick up her feet to clean them, do it.
This, with everything, the mare knows this stuff, and what you are going to do is end up with a sour horse by trying to over think and micro manage. There are things with horses that you just go do, you don't practice you don't perfect you just do.

The best advice is the advice that you got on 'the nasty' forum, and what I see the nice people here moving towards....

STOP asking for advice about every little thing on online forums, you say you trust your barn owner, work with them and your trainer, mix with actual real people at the barn, observe, ask questions and copy, you CAN NOT gain experience here, because every interaction with a horse is different..

Take this picking feet up, no one knows, because we can't see what you are doing, what she is doing, and how the interaction works, someone actually there could help you in two seconds, because they can see what is happening.

Forums are a great place to share, share the joy of ownership, they are a great place to share ideas, to learn about new things, but honestly not such a great place for the total novice to try and learn stuff, because there is more than one right way to do things, everyone has their own favorite, some things work well, some don't, but you need to have a little experience to be able to sort things out.
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post #939 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greentree View Post
Hoof pic, she gets a break every time you leave. She is a beast of burden. In normal situations, where horses are kept on LARGE acreage, they walk MANY miles every day.
The work horses here wear the harness AND buggy ALL day, the same as you have your car at the ready.

She has no concept of 24 hours. The gastric juices are the only thing that tells her what time it is, time to eat, and that is only if the horse is fed on a schedule. In a large pasture, they do not even have that, as they graze regularly.

Have you ever seen horses actually WORK? Getting a horse and putting a halter on does not constitute work.
Ive seen the lesson horses here work.

I always thought putting a halter on my mare constitutes work because halter + lead means work time.

I guess a better way I could have said it was, the days off I give her, are days where I dont interact with her, I dont ask of anything from her. Hence why I dont halter her on these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greentree View Post
THAT is because she KNOWS what you are going to DO...ask her to pick up her FOOT.

Grab it, hold a second, let it go, tell her to "put it down". (This command may come in handy later). If she doesn't put it down, put your hand on her withers and pull slightly towards you. This will get her to shift her weight and put it down.
But if she knows what i want her to do, why doesnt she lift her foot and hold it? but she paws instead. Maybe its just me, but that tells me shes just getting impatient.
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post #940 of 1323 Old 11-20-2015, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
This, with everything, the mare knows this stuff, and what you are going to do is end up with a sour horse by trying to over think and micro manage. There are things with horses that you just go do, you don't practice you don't perfect you just do.

The best advice is the advice that you got on 'the nasty' forum, and what I see the nice people here moving towards....

STOP asking for advice about every little thing on online forums, you say you trust your barn owner, work with them and your trainer, mix with actual real people at the barn, observe, ask questions and copy, you CAN NOT gain experience here, because every interaction with a horse is different..

Take this picking feet up, no one knows, because we can't see what you are doing, what she is doing, and how the interaction works, someone actually there could help you in two seconds, because they can see what is happening.

Forums are a great place to share, share the joy of ownership, they are a great place to share ideas, to learn about new things, but honestly not such a great place for the total novice to try and learn stuff, because there is more than one right way to do things, everyone has their own favorite, some things work well, some don't, but you need to have a little experience to be able to sort things out.

YES!

I especially like the part about having more than one right way to do things with horses. For example, your mare was already a pawer while tied. Under these circumstances, I would not have as a cue, a tap on the leg to pick up a hoof. For a horse that does not paw, it may be a perfectly good way to teach picking up a hoof, especially if a person cannot bend low due to fusion in the back. Not a way I would teach an untrained horse, but we got work with what we have, and not against it.

At the moment you are working against your mare with this hoof dilemma, or lack thereof, depending on where a person stands on whether it is an issue or not.
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