Disciplining horses vs. other animals? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
 86Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 42 Old 01-18-2017, 11:41 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kintnersville, PA
Posts: 32
• Horses: 2
Lots of good info for a beginner in this thread. I will chime in briefly, it sounds like the horse you were working with is "cinchy" (as defined by others here) and nice, even, slow pressure will help that. Inexperienced people tend to think of horses as large animals feeling less pain because of it. While somewhat true, someone yanking up a cinch (or gerth) hard and quick can make the best horse want to take a nip at you, just as you would in their place. A quick smack on the nose is key in my experience as previously stated and if you disagree, I am willing to bet you won't after the the first time you are bit. Always be vigilant and aware, never get lulled into complacency! Good Luck!
jimj911 is offline  
post #22 of 42 Old 01-19-2017, 12:12 AM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bonners Ferry Id.
Posts: 352
• Horses: 5
My horses are employees. I won't tolerate any fighting from an employee. Just like people they are terminated immediately. Horses aren't born aggressive, they're made that way by people beating them with crops and whips. Who has ever been attacked by a colt? The best way to find a good employee is through quantity. Some horses won't do the job I need them to do. Just like people, beating on them won't help. I've wanted to beat people with a crop, but there are laws against it. There are a lot of really good horses out there, so I don't waste my time with the ones that don't deserve it. The "good" employees both horses and people, have excellent benefits, love their job, they're good at their job, and have a better retirement plan than I do.
elkdog is offline  
post #23 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 04:42 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 21,753
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkdog View Post
I won't tolerate any fighting from an employee. Just like people they are terminated immediately.
Sounds very extreme! I wouldn't think you'd be worried about the legalities of hitting someone with a crop, if you're happy to TERMINATE them!! Maybe not the way it was supposed to be taken though. Does that word have another meaning??

Quote:
Horses aren't born aggressive, they're made that way by people beating them
Yep, exactly. Or made that way by being allowed to play those sorts of 'games', having them work, until it progresses to serious 'aggression'. Ditto for the most part for just learning to do & enjoy a job well. It is generally the experiences that the human gives the horse, good or bad, that creates the attitude.

So in that light...
Quote:
There are a lot of really good horses out there, so I don't waste my time with the ones that don't deserve it.
I disagree with that bit. They all *deserve* it, IMO.
Captain Evil likes this.
loosie is offline  
post #24 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 10:49 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 2,664
• Horses: 1
I am very much about positive training as a methodology, and I enjoy it when a horse learns through play and positive reinforcement because it seems to work so much better and more quickly, and be retained better.

However – that does not extend to behaviors that are dangerous, or violent. I can and will smack my horse with an open palm, crop, or the end of a lead rope if he is doing something that is dangerous to me or other people who handle him. Biting, kicking, shoving, or otherwise being disrespectful will always be met with a sign to show that it is NOT acceptable, EVER. I have told numerous non-horsey friends that my reasoning is “He weighs 1200 lbs, and I don’t. He can hurt me irreparably or kill me without half a thought.”

I think of it this way – if my horse walked up to the lead mare in his herd and bit her on the butt, she’d double-barrel him in the ribs and chase him halfway across the pasture, or turn around and bite him back. My hand on his neck cannot do anywhere near the damage his own herdmates would willingly inflict on him for being a jerk. I want him to understand that when he chooses to behave, things can be really good. I’ll encourage, praise, pet, release pressure and reward all the live-long day. He’s allowed to not understand or be confused, and I won’t get after him, because I haven't asked correctly - that is on me. However, if he chooses to act like I am another horse, and bite/kick/what have you, I will rain holy hell down on him so fast he won’t know what happened.

In all, I treat him with politeness on my end by giving him a release or reward when he tries to do what is asked, and being consistent and conscientious with what I am asking of him. I expect politeness and respect from him in kind.
loosie and Captain Evil like this.

Last edited by Mulefeather; 01-20-2017 at 10:54 AM.
Mulefeather is offline  
post #25 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 11:32 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia USA
Posts: 2,490
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattaTroublemaker View Post
The nail trick really works with a variety of things! My old gelding was really bad with food aggression, in a straight stall he would pin you when you dropped his hay and went to leave. I tried kneeing him in the belly, pushing, poking and pinching and nothing worked. I started carrying a screw, and when he pinned me he would poke himself with the screw. It took twice and he quit pinning people in the stall!
One of my first training projects was a filly like this. She was beautiful and huge, bigger than your average saddle horse at only 1.5 years old. She was an angel any other time, but in her stall, she would pin her owner, snap at her, and literally rear up over her head! I witnessed it and was afraid for the woman.

So I took the filly and worked her in the round pen. I remember there being very minor things that we worked through, but overall, she was good just like they said she was. Then I grabbed her halter and lead and took her back to the stall. I turned her loose, spoke with the owner for a minute, then went back in to see what she would do and if I could catch her. She immediately started her aggressive game.

What did I do? I did what other horses I had seen do with aggressive horses they couldn't get away from. I stuck like glue to her hindquarters where she couldn't do any real harm to me and pushed and shoved as hard as I could, keeping her moving in a circle around the stall, all the while being the tag-along on her hindquarters. She was very annoyed and snapped at me at first (couldn't reach), and then wasn't able to anymore as I forced her to keep moving. After a short minute of this, I let off the pressure and she stood rather perplexed. She continued to stand quietly for me to walk up and put the halter on, which I immediately praised her for.

The owner tried next and was unable to repeat this. The mare pinned her and reared over her head again. So I had her take the 'flag' (a short lunge whip with a plastic bag in the end instead of a lash) and go in the stall. Every time the filly went to charge her and act aggressive, she used the bag to make noise and chase her back a few steps. This resulted in the filly eventually standing quietly for the halter.

Two different methods, for two different people. Mine was an odd one and I came up with it in a split second as a result of being in a small space with a dangerous animal. Since the owner was unable to repeat what I did, I had her use the flag. Both worked, and both got the message to the horse. Both were negative reinforcement WITHOUT physical aggression.

Most of the -N I use is like this. I always use it in conjunction with positive. But I am certainly not afraid of giving a wallop where one is warranted.
loosie and Hondo like this.

"You can do something wrong for thirty years and call yourself experienced, you can do something right for a week and experience more than someone who spent thirty years doing the wrong thing." ~WhattaTroublemaker
horseluvr2524 is offline  
post #26 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 11:32 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Williams, Arizona
Posts: 5,983
• Horses: 0
I lean towards the notion that another poster on another thread suggested.

There are two classes of aggression in horses. One to establish dominance with the other being a defensive move, and that the two need to be treated very differently, while of course staying safe.

The poster also suggested that when the behavior is defensive, aggressive discipline/punishment can often be counter productive.
loosie, Foxhunter, Dwarf and 1 others like this.

CDC Advisor: " Wearing a mask is a lot easier than wearing a ventilator"
Hondo is offline  
post #27 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 03:49 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Western Massachusetts
Posts: 6,366
• Horses: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkdog View Post
...Horses aren't born aggressive, they're made that way by people beating them with crops and whips....
I've seen people attacked by colts. Colts that were never abused, they just learned they were boss because nobody ever told them different. My horse is a tester. If she pushes me, acts cranky, does things or refuses to do thing she knows she isn't allowed to, and I don't make it clear that I noticed and am displeased, she will do it again, bigger and harder. Horses aren't made of rainbows.

Short horse lover
Avna is offline  
post #28 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 04:22 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SW UK
Posts: 15,776
• Horses: 0
I have a way of dealing with the food aggressive horse - they want their food badly enough to threaten me they get it fast, still in the bucket with which I hit them across their nose with. I will then use the bucket to chase them around the stable until they show signs of submission. They can have their food if they can find it on the floor.


I had a very experienced event rider's horse come to me whilst she was away for a month. Lovely big stamp 5 years old. I was told that before feeding him to catch him, keep a hold of him, put his food in the manger and then get out the door before taking the halter off because he kicked. Also not to try to do anything to him if he was eating his hay because he would get nasty.

With as many horses as I had to care for of I had to do it to every horse feeding would take best part of the day! I did do it the first feed. The mangers were at the back of the stables. Once he had been let loose he double barrelled at me and even if I looked at him whilst he was eating he let rip.
Next feed I put in a way bigger than average bucket. I walked in ignoring his ears back and head shaking. I put the feed in the manger and he started to eat, his backend was blocking the door. I walked alongside him just waiting. He lifted the leg nearest me and let rip. I held the bucket so he kicked that. It made a lovely noise as it split, it came out my hand and hit the front wall, bounced off and landed on his head.
That frightened the heck out of him and he jumped away from the feed to see what it was. I immediatleynchased him with my arms waving growling at him and kicking the bucket between his legs so he kept hitting it.
There wasn't a lot of bucket left.

When I went in the next feed he stood back and waited. I fed him and he walked forward calmly. Again his butt was blocking the door. I asked him to move over and he did so instantly. I never had any aggression problems with him again.

When the owned came to collect him she was shocked to see that he was happily eating his hay whilst I was putting a tail bandage on him with no problem at all.

I never hurt the horse, I never even hit him, just frightened the heck out of him but it was a lesson well learned.
loosie and horseluvr2524 like this.
Foxhunter is offline  
post #29 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 04:43 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Williams, Arizona
Posts: 5,983
• Horses: 0
People attacked by colts??? Little Filly's?

I held my first day old colt last spring. Pretty neat. But I was first warned by a person that had trained many colts on the ranch to beware and be quick. Colts liked to test every thing. She said they could whirl and kink out for no reason other than they were a colt being a colt.

Proved to be good advice, but I never felt I was being attacked.

Here is her viciousness after about two weeks or so.


CDC Advisor: " Wearing a mask is a lot easier than wearing a ventilator"
Hondo is offline  
post #30 of 42 Old 01-20-2017, 05:19 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
[QUOTE=elkdog;9703593]My horses are employees. I won't tolerate any fighting from an employee. Just like people they are terminated immediately. Horses aren't born aggressive, they're made that way by people beating them with crops and whips. Who has ever been attacked by a colt? The best way to find a good employee is through quantity. Some horses won't do the job I need them to do. Just like people, beating on them won't help. I've wanted to beat people with a crop, but there are laws against it. There are a lot of really good horses out there, so I don't waste my time with the ones that don't deserve it. The "good" employees both horses and people, have excellent benefits, love their job, they're good at their job, and have a better retirement plan than I do.




No one recommends beating a horse, but I disagree that only horses that have been abused bite[
Just not true.many horses will offer to bite a human, just like they would another horse, esp a stud, until they are taught that is not the order of things
It is natural for foals to offer to nip people, as well as other horses, before they are taught 'herd order' They are not born knowing that.
Nipping is a very common behavior for intact colts, at play, practicing courting mares, and they do have to be taught boundaries, far as interaction with humans
You never correct a horse in anger, fit the correction with the crime, use the three second rule, and then always go on as if nothing happened. Don't pick at a horse, esp a stud. Correct hard enough to get the message across, and then treat that horse as if nothing happened.
I'm not into comparing how to correct horses, versus other species, and really, really hate the dog comparison. A dog is a predator, who has a pack order in order to be more efficient hunters
A horse is a prey species that lives in a herd environment for security

My horse is not an employee, but rather a partner, but not an equal partner, as I am the controlling partner and keep the right for that veto My horse is also not my dog, cat, parrot or even significant other
It is the human in almost all cases , that determines as to whether that horse becomes a 'good citizen', has a good work ethic.
loosie, Dwarf and Avna like this.
Smilie is offline  
Reply

Tags
discipline , new to horses , training

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do you think that physically disciplining horses with your body is ok ? OliviaMyee Horse Talk 17 01-14-2013 03:40 PM
Jobs with horses/animals. JamieLeighx Horse Talk 3 08-20-2011 09:19 PM
Besides horses, what are your favorite animals and why? Citrus Hobbies 41 04-13-2010 01:49 AM
Pasture animals other than horses HorseOfCourse Horse Pictures 14 12-04-2009 06:13 PM
horses and other animals kko Farm Animals 5 08-19-2009 11:32 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome