Dumb question about horse disposal - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beau159 View Post
I'm really confused.
If you read the thread you will note that a previous poster suggested that if I wanted to avoid giving them away to someone who would just slaughter them, I might try pricing them above the slaughter value. Hence, I thought I might have to check the slaughter value in order to determine that price.

As to euthanasia, I've seen all kinds of animals (many horses too) put down in all kinds of ways and I've never seen anything as quick and painless as bullet in the brain pan. In fact, if I'm ever put down, that's the way I want it and that's the way I'd want it for a friend or loved one.

As to retaining control after giving them away, I was not expecting that much. However, there are entities that are known for their position on certain matters and I was simply wondering if there might be something similar in the horse community to meet my desires. If you gave a cello to a high school they can do with it as they will, yes, but the chances that they might toss it on the Homecoming Bon Fire are not as great as, say, oh, giving it to the homeless guys in Detroit next January.
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post #12 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 04:33 PM
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Death by bullet is quick and as painless as it comes, so I have no quarrel with that method of euthanasia. I just think if you can afford to keep the horses, do it.

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post #13 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by James Riley View Post
If you read the thread you will note that a previous poster suggested that if I wanted to avoid giving them away to someone who would just slaughter them, I might try pricing them above the slaughter value. Hence, I thought I might have to check the slaughter value in order to determine that price.

As to euthanasia, I've seen all kinds of animals (many horses too) put down in all kinds of ways and I've never seen anything as quick and painless as bullet in the brain pan. In fact, if I'm ever put down, that's the way I want it and that's the way I'd want it for a friend or loved one.

As to retaining control after giving them away, I was not expecting that much. However, there are entities that are known for their position on certain matters and I was simply wondering if there might be something similar in the horse community to meet my desires. If you gave a cello to a high school they can do with it as they will, yes, but the chances that they might toss it on the Homecoming Bon Fire are not as great as, say, oh, giving it to the homeless guys in Detroit next January.
Then you're using the wrong vet. ANY vet-delivered euthanasia should be painless. I work at a wildlife center where, unfortunately, we have to put many animals down. I have been the one to wield the needle and deliver the shot that stops their heart. It should NEVER be anything but painless. We first anesthetize them with gas, making sure they're deeply under before giving the shot. When they're asleep they feel absolutely nothing, and then they die. I would much rather go that way than a bullet, which while it has it's uses and I do see it as a viable form of 'euthanasia' can miss. (You read about it a lot - the people who try to kill themselves and end up living, just horribly disfigured, etc). A bullet is not a guarantee, to me - a shot into the bloodstream is.
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post #14 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Then you're using the wrong vet. . . . A bullet is not a guarantee, to me - a shot into the bloodstream is.
Then you're using the wrong shooter.

Eliminate the variable by using a vet for either one and I'd still choose the bullet. It's more guaranteed

I think, behind the arguments, some folks just don't like the noise, the violence and the blood. They like to think of death as a peaceful, quiet and voluntary thing. They feel better about themselves afterwards. They also would rather pay others to do their dirty work.

But to each his own.

Finally, I don't know if it's good for bears, coyotes and such to be eating meat that's all drugged up.

P.S. Anyone trying shoot themselves and missing is not a valid analogy. If they miss, it's a cry for help. There are likewise tons of people who try to O.D. and fail but that can't be held against your chosen method of euthanasia. Apples and Oranges.
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Last edited by James Riley; 08-23-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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post #15 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by James Riley View Post
Then you're using the wrong shooter.

Eliminate the variable by using a vet for either one and I'd still choose the bullet. It's more guaranteed

I think, behind the arguments, some folks just don't like the noise, the violence and the blood. They like to think of death as a peaceful, quiet and voluntary thing. They feel better about themselves afterwards. They also would rather pay others to do their dirty work.

But to each his own.

Finally, I don't know if it's good for bears, coyotes and such to be eating meat that's all drugged up.
I don't care how good of a shooter your are, you can always miss. The bullet could hit the skull and go off course, whether or not you're aimed correctly. It could misfire. It could maul the brain and cause a partial death, and leave the horse thrashing. The horse could twitch and you shoot him but not kill. Even if your shooter hits the mark 100% of the time the amount of variables is too great. A needle into the bloodstream is guaranteed.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I agreed that I do see it as a viable form of euthanasia - and if I had a horse I KNEW had to be put down for whatever reason and a vet couldn't come out for 3 hours, well, I guess I'm getting the gun. I'd rather go that route then let my poor horse sit in agony. *shrug*

I'm just saying that if every vet administered euth has been an ordeal you should look into a different vet because that should not happen, and it should indeed be quiet and painless.

And we aren't talking about animals that are to be eaten. We're talking about animals that are in need of euthanasia and the methods to go about it ;)
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post #16 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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I don't care how good of a shooter your are, you can always miss.
You are fundamentally wrong. You can't miss when you put the muzzle on their on head. And no horse skull will deflect a .45.

You are more likely to miss the vein or under-drug or have a bad batch than I am to have a bad round or miss the brain. And I'm spending about thirty cents or less without an advanced degree.

P.S. You used that word "quiet." But we aren't talking about that any more than we are talking about meat to be eaten. ; )

Every example you've given on your side of the argument is equally as subject to mistake as the examples you give against mine. Good vet? Good shooter. Bad shot bullet, bad shot needle. I could go on.

Finally, you have to deal with the carcass and out here something is going to eat it. Why waste the meat?

Last edited by James Riley; 08-23-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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post #17 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by James Riley View Post
You are fundamentally wrong. You can't miss when you put the muzzle on their on head. And no horse skull will deflect a .45.

You are more likely to miss the vein or under-drug or have a bad batch than I am to have a bad round or miss the brain. And I'm spending about thirty cents or less without an advanced degree.
Not miss the horse. Miss the whatever area of the brain that kills them. A bullet in the brain does NOT always mean death (mostly it does, but).

And yes, a horse skull CAN deflect a bullet. A friend of my stepmother's had this happen with a point blank shot.

And in my two years of working at the center there has not been a single botched euthanasia. If it's injected outside of the bloodstream, it kills them anyways. It's just faster in the bloodstream/in the heart. Because they're asleep, it doesn't matter how long it takes, they don't know the difference.

You are correct about cost. It's much cheaper to use a bullet (though with the way bullet costs are riding it might not be for long! )

EITHER WAY - this is derailing. My original comment was just to say that vet induced euth SHOULD NOT be anything other than quick and painless (since you said you'd NEVER seen a quick and painless one). Didn't mean for it to turn into a 'gun VS needle) battle in the thread that had nothing to do with it :) To each their own.

Last edited by Shoebox; 08-23-2013 at 05:34 PM.
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post #18 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 05:34 PM
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Well anyway...I don't think the purpose of this thread was to discuss our marksman skills LOL




OP, my opinion is keep them. You've said that you do have the money to continue caring for them- you just don't want to see them wilt away in a field.
As Speed said, horses do not care if you ride them or not. They're happy as a clam to just sit there and eat all day and night. Also, having each other for companionship does them well.

Hell, even my show horse who enjoys his job doesn't give a flying heck if I ride him...as long as he gets fed every day, some form of attention, and his farrier/vet needs taken care of he could care less if he's ridden!
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post #19 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 05:37 PM
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I thought shooting them was quicker, we shoot ours when they no longer have a good quality of life. With the euthanasia it just stops the heart while the brain is still alive for up to a few minutes before it dies.

Anywho, like everyones been saying, why have you just let these guys just waste out in pasture for all those years?
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post #20 of 83 Old 08-23-2013, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shoebox View Post
Not miss the horse. Miss the whatever area of the brain that kills them. A bullet in the brain does NOT always mean death (mostly it does, but).

And yes, a horse skull CAN deflect a bullet. A friend of my stepmother's had this happen with a point blank shot.

And in my two years of working at the center there has not been a single botched euthanasia. If it's injected outside of the bloodstream, it kills them anyways. It's just faster in the bloodstream/in the heart. Because they're asleep, it doesn't matter how long it takes, they don't know the difference.

You are correct about cost. It's much cheaper to use a bullet (though with the way bullet costs are riding it might not be for long! )

EITHER WAY - this is derailing. My original comment was just to say that vet induced euth SHOULD NOT be anything other than quick and painless (since you said you'd NEVER seen a quick and painless one). Didn't mean for it to turn into a 'gun VS needle) battle in the thread that had nothing to do with it :) To each their own.
Like the slaughter price issue, you are confused again. I did not say I'd never seen a quick and painless one. I'd said I'd never seen one as quick and painless as a bullet. It's obvious the needle is not as quick and with no brain, no pain.

As to the friend of your stepmother, again, bad vet, bad shooter. What were they using, a .22 short? Even that, done right, will not be deflected. When you use a .45 in the center of the brain, there is no "whatever area of the brain that kills them." Anyway, like you said, back on track.
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