English Riding, HELP! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
 63Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 34 Old 01-04-2015, 11:14 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Virginia
Posts: 79
• Horses: 1
English and Western are like playing the violin and the fiddle. Both are beautiful and both require talent. I have and still would like to ride both though my old trainer sold most of her horses except her eventing prospects both OTTB

OP I applaud you for your DIY kind of mind but please don't feel offended by the suggestions of finding a trainer to help. Most of us did grow up learning from those more experienced than us and you can guess where the more experienced ones learned it from. Not everyone does it this way but I don't think it is anyone's place to judge how one gains experience. Experience is experience. Successful DIY-ers are problem solvers, they figure things out and get things done. I consider myself a lazy bum. I research everything that interests me and I asked questions. Without the "old-timers" I'd have never figured out the cool trick that is removing a rope halter from underneath a bridle ;D. Besides you didn't learn everything by yourself because the idea to ride came from some where. Also the saddle you ride in no matter how old has been developed over time since horses began to be used for riding so show some respect to the many generations of people who passed on their knowledge to get us where we are now:P

The point is that OP, learning is not a matter of pride. Getting some help from someone who has been there done that is not going to hurt anything except maybe save you a pretty penny(like helping you find the right saddle) and save you from the awful pinching that comes with riding in jeans in an english saddle(or am I alone in that? lol.) There are these magical devices called Half-chaps that'll save you from plenty-a-bruise.

Also lets stop all the hate on heavy saddles! My trainer's husband has a lovely old one that I'd steal in a heart beat If I could lift it. It may not be 100 pounds but I sure as heck couldn't lift it several years ago and probably still cant. Exaggeration it may be but not that much of one given I easily carry those bazillion pound hay bales ;).

Now back to the original topic. Here is my advice.

Given you've decided to try English riding that means there must be something that inspired you to do it. Perhaps someone? Study that someone, Pay attention to the angles of their body. from ear to shoulder to hip to heel, elbow to the horse's mouth. While I associate this with dressage and you might try it given I've known a lot of western riders who made the transition to dressage much easier than to hunter, jumper, etc; it would be useful to find the angles so you can mimic them yourself.

Next... Post, Post, Post! at the trot/jog you stand every time the horse's outside leg comes forward. The idea is that you are taking weight off of the leg that will bear the most weight on a curve. In say an hour lesson you want at least half of it to be in the trot not only because this is the one a horse can travel the longest, fastest, but also because it is uncharted territory.

-If you stand and are on your tippee toes with your knees straight, you are doing it wrong(and your stirrups are likely too long.
-If you are bouncing in the saddle you are doing it wrong.
-If you feel the need to pull the horse's mouth to stay steady, you are doing it wrong.
-If you are pitching forward and back and feel unbalanced, you are doing it wrong.
-It you are squeezing the horse's side to stay centered or to keep from pitching forward, you are doing it wrong.
-If you simply let the upward push of the horse's stride push you out of the saddle, you are doing it wrong.
-If you stand then your butt smacks the saddle, you are doing it wrong.

Their are probably thousands of ways to post incorrectly but thousands more to a good quality posting trot. You should allow the horse's gait to give you a little push out of the saddle but not depend on it(especially if the horse's you are riding are flat movers). Your lower leg should be placed firmly to the horse's side but your knee should stay loose and following, pinching them in will pull your lower leg away. You need to have control, rhythm, and balance to use a posting trot effectively and not to mention how difficult it can be.

If you want to move on to the oh so fascinating two and three-point let me know.

As for transitioning your horses.(this may or may not be true given what discipline OP rides vs. what OP Wants to ride.)

Contact. This may or may not be difficult depending on the horse but in most English disciplines, contact is very important. This doesn't mean clamping your elbows and being stiff as a board but you also shouldn't tighten the reins then let your arms flop. You should have a straight line from your elbow to your wrist to the horse's mouth. You also, as I mentioned above, should have good lower leg contact while maintaining that loose following knee and hip. Why? English is very much about precision and invisible aids. You want it to seem like you just thought about what you wanted and the horse did it. It should be THAT seamless and that is why everything is so close contact. This is why other's mentioned taking lessons on other people's horses because those horse's know their job and will respond how they are supposed to (hopefully) because when you ask them they will do what your asking(good or bad). Albeit English and Western are not so different but they are still a slightly different language and it might be hard to teach your horses how to do it when you don't know how it is supposed to feel. I swear every time I switched from a green horse to a lesson horse I got culture shock.

Western walk=English baby steps
In English you typically want a nice marching walk with a little swing through the back. You want to look like you're going somewhere though if you break into a trot/jog you need to bring them back down. Don't punish them for being confused as to what you want. Just take your time.

Western jog=Lazy English horse trot
Again you want your horse move with a sense of purpose. Obviously a lot of people post but English rider's also(or should) use the sitting trot, though it may be different if your used to nice slow jog, add a little impulsion and all of a sudden its a lot more bouncy then you remember(fell off a horse bareback this way back in the day lol)

Western Goin-Nowhere lope=English ?
The canter like all the other's should be forward and going somewhere. Its quite a bit different from the nice little lope(so comfy!) The biggest difference I can see if it is less about flattening out into a hand gallop as opposed to bringing their head and chest slightly up. Not so forward as up and balanced.

One thing that would be good across the board is adjust-ability. You want to teach your horse to go at the pace you ask and stay there without too much encouragement or nagging. This can be surprisingly difficult given a lot of us, myself included tend to maintain one consistent speed and only change to change gaits. In-gait transitions will help you teach and tell your horse what you want.
and also maintaining a steady tempo and rhythm will get you brownie points :)

Lastly, just have fun with it. If you want to gallop across a field do it, if you AND your horses get frustrated with stupid English go back to your roots and get back your confidence. Maybe an English Lesson then do something fun like a bareback western escapade through the field lol. We all started riding for a reason, don't loose sight of that for frustration.

Disclaimer- I am basing this on Western and English pleasure maybe a little bias towards dressage principles. I am not a professional, and if you disagree that's fine. I don't know everything. I'm just giving my bazillion cents.

I wish you the best and I hope to hear about your progress.
Foxhunter, Ripplewind and dlady like this.
DarElBeck is offline  
post #12 of 34 Old 01-05-2015, 12:42 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 35,297
• Horses: 3
Re. the saddle. As you're not familiar with English saddles and fitting then you'd do best to locate a good saddler who will come out with a selection and fit one to you and the horse. It will save you a lot in time and money in the long run
For the training
Do your horses direct rein or only respond to neck rein?
If they only neck rein then you'll need to learn how to direct rein so you can train them
Do they move forwards and sideways from standard leg cues? English trained horses respond to the same leg cues as western ones
I've ridden a quite a few horses since I came here that had only ever been ridden 'western' and I had no trouble at all getting them to respond to my English cues - though they were all started off 'direct reining'
jaydee is offline  
post #13 of 34 Old 01-05-2015, 01:44 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,196
• Horses: 3
I am going to try English sometime soon as well. Mainly so I can jump higher and with greater ease. (Right now, we jump like a foot and a half as I don't want to go any higher with a western saddle) If the only reason you want to do English is because your saddle weighs a hundred pounds, get a new saddle. I love love love synthetic leather ones. They are very comfortable and light weight. mine weighs 14 pounds and fits a 15hh mare quite well. If you want to learn to branch out, go for it! I can't really offer that much advice, since I am learning as well, but I think one thing is to make sure you keep your hand off your leg and the saddle. I think us western riders get in a habit of keeping our extra hand on either the saddle or our leg. Try direct reining with a western saddle before doing it in an english. Try posting with a western saddle before doing it in english. Shorten the stirrups and get used to that idea. Get totally comfortable before moving on to the english. Good luck!
Ebonyisforme is offline  
post #14 of 34 Old 01-05-2015, 07:52 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 36
• Horses: 0
* Keep your heels down, toes pointed in.
* Sit up straight, shoulders back
* Keep your hands off the horse's neck
* When you are posting the trot, follow the saying, "Rise and fall with the leg on the wall."
Hope this gives you some new information! Have fun! :)

"Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure"
bluethehuman is offline  
post #15 of 34 Old 01-05-2015, 10:51 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 48,372
• Horses: 2
people think English riding is easy, and all about being "pretty". it is not. it's about being positioned in such a way that you can get up and off your horse's back to encourage big, forward movement, so you can sweep across the countryside, jump hedges and still look handsome. it takes, in general, a lot more leg and core strength than most Western riding.

the flip side is that in English you will find a lot of riders tend to ride too much from leg strength, and balancing on the rein contact and "pulling " the hrose around, rather than asking him and letting him make the turn on his own.

I have ridden some of both, and I love the close contact feel that you get in an English or dressage saddle, and I prefer the bigger more energetic movemnt of a typical English type mover.

but, I love the relaxed feeling that says, "let your reins droop down if that's ok for now", that is more typically Western.

hopefully, you'll have some fun discovering the differences and similarities and enjoying broadening your horizons.
Ripplewind likes this.
tinyliny is offline  
post #16 of 34 Old 01-06-2015, 01:32 AM
Started
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: north
Posts: 1,758
• Horses: 2
some thoughts...
Nobody mentioned this and I think you already know, but pick up an English girth to go with that saddle. For a dressage saddle it would be shorter (due to the longer straps) about 22 to 30 is the range I've seen. For a jumper saddle or all purpose they go from about 42 to 48 inches. English girths aren't as "one size fits all" as Western girths, so you might want to measure your horse. But Girth extenders are always an option.

The english saddle will allow you more freedom for jumping galloping trotting walking...pretty much everything, and a snaffle with soft connection to the mouth will give you more communication and hopefully more sensitivity. so despite your insistence that you can "just learn from your mistakes" It is a terribly worth it to get good instruction so you can use your seat and contact effectively. These will be new to your horse if he/she has only done western. As someone quite clever once said "Experience is a great school but the fees are high." Don't get years down the road finally decide you would like some lessons and discover what you missed for years by just not knowing the "language" Someone with experience and who is a good teacher will only expand your confidence and independence (something you come off as having quite a bit of) not belittle your skill.
tinyliny and natisha like this.
lostastirrup is offline  
post #17 of 34 Old 01-07-2015, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 25
• Horses: 3
Okay, you know I am experianced in Western. I know the basics of English riding, i just wanna know the best places to get an English saddle. And just tips on riding; like just random tips.
I am not "over- defensive", or childish. I just don't like how some people under estimate me. I might be young but all my horsey friends think i have a REAL talent with horses.
not just being able to ride, but able to understand them, i get them, i know how to fix problems they have.
Thanks for the advice; but still, don't critique at an online person.
PaintLuvver13 is offline  
post #18 of 34 Old 01-07-2015, 07:42 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Woodinville, Washington
Posts: 1,203
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintLuvver13 View Post
Okay, you know I am experianced in Western. I know the basics of English riding, i just wanna know the best places to get an English saddle. And just tips on riding; like just random tips.
I am not "over- defensive", or childish. I just don't like how some people under estimate me.
The first two people who offered you answers to your questions you accused of treating you like a child. They did not belittle you, they did not answer with a bad "tone", they simply answered the questions you asked. That is childish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintLuvver13 View Post
I might be young but all my horsey friends think i have a REAL talent with horses.
not just being able to ride, but able to understand them, i get them, i know how to fix problems they have.
That might be true, but you will find as you get older that you know less than you think. Those who have the experience that I would trust know better than to go around shouting about it. I have never met someone who I think is truly talented who announces that they are - their actions and thoughts/opinions on the subject prove it for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintLuvver13 View Post
Thanks for the advice; but still, don't critique at an online person.
You ask questions and get offended at the answers - what do you want? If you take the quality advice that's been given you as negative critique I don't know how you will ever learn anything.
TessaMay is offline  
post #19 of 34 Old 01-07-2015, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 25
• Horses: 3
I am not boasting, i am just simply stating the truth! Because some people who board their horse at a stable; someone tacks it up for them, they ride, they leave, stable hand untacks, and cleans stall, feed, water groom.I am not hating on them i am just saying i do know how to do things! I do all of those chores myself!
and yes i know i don't know everything that's why i posted this message.
PaintLuvver13 is offline  
post #20 of 34 Old 01-07-2015, 08:17 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,649
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintLuvver13 View Post
I am not boasting, i am just simply stating the truth! Because some people who board their horse at a stable; someone tacks it up for them, they ride, they leave, stable hand untacks, and cleans stall, feed, water groom.I am not hating on them i am just saying i do know how to do things! I do all of those chores myself!
and yes i know i don't know everything that's why i posted this message.
you are getting VERY VERY defensive and yes, you are boasting. English is not easy, we just make it look that way just as western is not easy. No matter how much experience you have it's still a good idea to at least talk to a english trainer and maybe take a lesson or two just to get the basics down. Other than that, keep your heels down and your leg on. Do no stirrup work until your legs feel like they're bleeding. Lastly, people on this forum have an opinion, always and they will give it to whether you want it or not, accept that and learn to take things in stride or leave.
Speed Racer and littlebird like this.

Equestrianism; 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain and 100% reason to remember you're absolutely insane to be riding a beast that big.
Samstead is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
English riding instructor teaching western riding? Oldhorselady Horse Riding & Horse Activity 22 04-01-2013 07:18 PM
me riding English!! In an actual english saddle!! alucard Horse Pictures 4 07-20-2009 12:11 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome