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post #11 of 19 Old 08-21-2015, 01:26 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
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^He's cute, and reminds me of my 22 year old Hunter <3

That said, I'd be a bit skeptical of this offer... Like the others have said, something just doesn't sound right.
DEFINITELY get a PPE done.
Also, make sure there is signed paperwork involved saying that the current owner is giving this horse to you at no nominal fee.
Can I ask how long you've been working with this trainer? Also, do you have the funds for pay for board if, for whatever reason, working it off doesn't work out?

The sensitivity of the internet baffles me.
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post #12 of 19 Old 08-21-2015, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
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Location: Georgia
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@Zexious Yeah, my mom and I have been talking about it a lot, and we think we're definitely going to do a flexion test and if he doesn't pass that we won't spend anymore time considering the offer or spending more money on vet examinations. I also will make sure that I wont ever run into problems with who owns the horse and all. Get SOME kind of paper work at least.

If I were to lose the job and no longer work board off, I'm not sure if I could board at this stables unless I picked up another job somewhere. However, there are a few other barns I could choose from that have cheaper board that are still quite nice. (The barn I'm at now is almost $500 a month, but the nice thing about that is it includes lessons). Even if my parents were able to fully cover the costs, I would never expect to rely fully on them, especially since I'm 16 and old enough to work.

Also, I've been with this barn and riding with my trainer for about 6 or 7 months now.
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post #13 of 19 Old 08-21-2015, 08:48 PM
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I'd be pretty cautious going in. If your aim is to compete over the next few years I'd probably be looking for a younger horse.

An 18 year old horse might be a decent option if they were a school master with heaps of competition experience and training that you can learn from but a green 18 year old has none of the benefits of the age with all of the health risks.

You could find yourself facing mountains of vet bills, supplementary feeding costs and then eventually retirement over the next few years. These are really substantial costs that could easily run into the thousands.

The other thing to consider is that a green 18 year old is worth pretty much nothing. You probably couldn't even give him away. They might have tried to sell him on, couldn't, and then that's why they offered him to you. Not so much as a favour, but more offloading the horse. If you find that he's not the right horse for you, or that you don't have the money for a horse or that you don't have the time once you have more school work you might have a significant amount of difficulty finding him a new home.

This deal just doesn't sound quite right to me.

Buying the horse is the cheapest part. As far as having a safe and enjoyable experience it's probably the most worthwhile money spent, and I don't think it's the part that people should try to cut costs with. A free horse is usually free for a reason and unless you really know what you're looking for I don't think it's ever a good choice for a novice.
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post #14 of 19 Old 08-21-2015, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Georgia
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@Saskia I plan on doing shows here and then, but I'm definitely not a big competition girl (and probably wont be until I get out of high school or graduate college). As of right now I've actually done one schooling show and that's it. I do have plans to show in October, but it's a lower level local show.

I've been thinking on this offer a lot. Looking at Boe from an investment point of view I think it could be a good deal. My big thing is they don't know for sure he's even 18, so he could be younger or older. With that being said, say I work with him and turn him into a push-button horse and put a few show miles on him, and when I have more experience in 3 or 4 years, I sell him for $1,000 - $1,500 as a large lesson horse. I personally know in the area I live there is always a need for larger lesson horses for beginner adults/larger kids. There's also the option of half-leasing with some of the other lesson girls at my barn as well. There is also the potential for me to give my own lessons on Boe one day, since my barn owner has internship positions. (This is all assuming he is sound and healthy of course)

Also, I just wanted to say that him being an older horse doesn't bother me too much because there used to be a horse at the barn who was 22-24 years old (they weren't sure on her age) that was still going very strong in both Jumpers and Dressage. She taught both beginners and intermediate riders. Also, every time I've ever read anything about buying your first horse, everyone has always said "buy an older horse". I do realize by older they mean 14-16, but still.

I need experience, both working at a barn and owning a horse. There's a part of me that believes that owning an older horse that just needs someone to show him the ropes is a great way to begin my life of horse ownership, and it would get me better prepared for the day I do buy a much younger competition horse. I could learn how to train without dealing with the bucking and hot-headedness. (Though honestly, if I were buying a prospect to do hunters I wouldn't even really consider a hot headed horse.)

I also trust in the fact that my trainer wouldn't even offer this to me if she didn't think I was capable of handling the horse. From what I know of her, she emphasizes keeping riders on horses they can handle, and she takes her time learning what riders are capable of. I also trust in the fact that I used to ride at a barn where they DIDN'T keep riders with horses they are capable of handling, so I've dealt with quite a few things in my time of riding. Extremely forward horses, extremely dull horses. Horses who don't even know how to canter or pick up the right lead, horses that refuse jumps. A wide spectrum that I've encountered and I was able to adapt to. (And I spent the longest amount of time with a gelding who refused jumps, a mare that was just moody and lazy, and a gelding who knew next to nothing despite being 17.)

But I don't know much of anything on the situation or where me and my parents stand on the offer until tomorrow after my lesson. (I may even end up riding Boe in my lesson, not sure.) I'll definitely make sure to give updates tomorrow afternoon!

Sorry for the long reply, I was mostly just rambling out my thoughts for my own self haha
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post #15 of 19 Old 08-22-2015, 12:03 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New South Wales, Australia
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It's good you're thinking this through, and not going in blind! It's commendable.

Just make sure you're realistic, some horses go into their twenties, or even 30s, but I've known many to break down in their early 20s. There is no rule, it can go either way, training could be harder than you think though. It's more than just fixing issues t have a real nice lesson horse. People are REALLY reluctant to buy older horses. In my experience people want around 14ish when they look for an old, experienced horse, often with 18 being the top limit. Once they hit 20 no matter how good they are 99% of people won't even look at them. Could you lease the horse maybe? Or have a couple months trial?

I understand the draw though of a cheap horse. A couple years ago my friend had a young TB who they said I could have for $300. I worked with her for a few weeks and then bought her. Did some more work with her, realised that she had more issues than I wanted to deal with, too much risk, not enough gain, barely made my money back selling her. Bought a horse, grade horse but better bred, actually the one I still have, a month or so later, just a couple years older and 10 times the price but 100 times the horse. I regret the $300 and time I spent on that TB, but not for one moment have I regretted spending so much more for the horse I have now.

I see cheap horses popup on my Facebook feed. But to be honest any horse I'd buy now I wouldn't hesitate to spend the money on. I wouldn't even consider a free horse because in my experience you can get something so much better for just a bit more. Money that doesn't hardly matter in the long run.

But definitely keep us updated! I'm interested to see how this goes!
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post #16 of 19 Old 08-22-2015, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
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Location: Georgia
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@Saskia Yeah I'm trying not to let my heart take over my brain haha! I've been going over the pros and cons ever since I was told about it yesterday.

And actually I have been thinking of asking if I could work to pay off lease. However, I think they are making this offer to me and a couple other girls at the barn because they need a more push button horse, but they don't want to get rid of Boe? It could be the case. I know the BO's mother really likes him. It'd be a way for them to get extra help and have the money to buy another lesson horse. Who knows though.

Asking for a trial period is a good idea actually. Didn't even think of that! Thank you!
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post #17 of 19 Old 08-22-2015, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
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Location: Georgia
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So here's a little update!:

After my lesson today my parents and I spoke with my trainer (the barn owner) and her mother about Boe. They told me a little bit about the work I'd be doing, what time I'd need to be at the barn, ect. But she said she didn't want to go into too much detail about this offer if I didn't like Boe. So, next Saturday is the day we'll really go into detail and all. Next Saturday I'll ride Boe and have some fun with him, see if I really like him! I'm so excited!

But I got a lot more information about Boe. Boe is definitely 18 years old. He is an OTTB, but his race career was pretty short they said. He does still have a lip tattoo. The reason why Boe is 'green' is because he was left in a pasture for a year or two and not worked with much until he came to my barn about 3 months ago. One of the biggest buying factors for the BO's mother was the fact that Boe is a lot like her old horse named Pooh. (Which is probably why she doesn't want to sell him).

I also got to see some videos of a VERY timid rider working with Boe, and he did just fine for her. (He also has nice movement too!) According to my trainer, the big thing Boe needs right now is just to get worked with consistently so he can build his muscle back up. In the lessons he was ridden in, they mostly worked on ground work and getting him to engage his hind end. She said she doesn't want to see him jumping until he gets back into shape. My trainer really believes Boe could be a great project horse for me, and she believes I'm more than capable of handling him.

Even though I didn't ride Boe today, I did get to meet him in his pasture. He is so CUTE! Ahh he is such a sweet baby. He immediately came right up to us, and never turned his back on us. He seems to be people oriented and very friendly. But of course, I really wanted to get a better sense of how his temperament is, so I did the whole walk around the horse, pet his belly, rub his ears, that sort of thing just to see how he'd react. And for everything he was perfectly fine with! He was especially calm about the ears which is a huge plus lol. (All the horses I've ever ridden get angry over people touching their ears) I really did like him from what I saw today! So I'm very excited about having fun with him on Saturday :)

But yeah, about the offer, my trainer was telling us that we'd be paying for farrier, vet, vaccinations/coggins. We would own him, and what I'm working for is just the cost of what board would be (pasture board, which would be $325. And even though its pasture board, Boe would have a stall in case of bad weather). I will also be given the opportunity to do extra work for lessons, and if I still want to pay for lessons I can ride either their lesson horses or Boe. (Lessons I worked for would all be on Boe ofcourse). My trainer also said that if we accept this offer, and say 2 years down the line we run into issues and can no longer afford him, they'll take him back. She said she doesn't want to dump him on us, which is nice. She also said since its close to winter now, she would go ahead and provide a winter blanket for him as well. They also said that if Boe needs his teeth done they'd also go ahead and pay for that as well.

I hope this offer is good and it all works out. Boe is a sweet horse who still has plenty of potential left in him! (Which, by the way, Boe has been shown as a hunter and jumper in the past) I look forward to potentially owning him!

Also, to make this post even longer, pictures of Boe :p





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post #18 of 19 Old 08-23-2015, 07:48 AM
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[QUOTE=DaCharles;7899825]

One of the biggest buying factors for the BO's mother was the fact that Boe is a lot like her old horse named Pooh. (Which is probably why she doesn't want to sell him).

She said she doesn't want to see him jumping until he gets back into shape. My trainer really believes Boe could be a great project horse for me, and she believes I'm more than capable of handling him.


But yeah, about the offer, my trainer was telling us that we'd be paying for farrier, vet, vaccinations/coggins. We would own him, and what I'm working for is just the cost of what board would be (pasture board, which would be $325. And even though its pasture board, Boe would have a stall in case of bad weather). I will also be given the opportunity to do extra work for lessons, and if I still want to pay for lessons I can ride either their lesson horses or Boe. (Lessons I worked for would all be on Boe ofcourse). My trainer also said that if we accept this offer, and say 2 years down the line we run into issues and can no longer afford him, they'll take him back. She said she doesn't want to dump him on us, which is nice. She also said since its close to winter now, she would go ahead and provide a winter blanket for him as well. They also said that if Boe needs his teeth done they'd also go ahead and pay for that as well.



Add to this that they made the offer to others and it sounds like a lease and not purchase. Unless they are willing to write out a bill of sale and transfer papers (expect a min number of months/years or the sale is void) then I would pass. I could be totally wrong but the feeling I get is they want a rider for the horse to justify his being there and all the better if you pay for his board with work but if you can't afford to work the number of hours or fail to meet their standard or run up on a bill you can't pay then they will happily take him back. Of course they will and then site past use for reason not to compensate you and payment for board as your payment not the horse. They also may refuse to let you move the animal to a less expensive situation which tells you you were not being paid with the horse as gratis for taking the job and work to exchange for board/lessons.

And this is just curiosity on my part - is $325 her normal pasture board charge? That is high for this area but may be the norm where you are. Is she reserving a stall for bad weather or will she turn out a cash boarder's horse to make room for this animal? Some barns have a stall that is kept open for a pasture board that is injured or such and has short term needs so it may be not an issue but how many other horses there have owners that are expecting to use that stall in bad weather?

I have offered a horse for exchange. For the horse offered to include board with feeding (pasture) I expected 10 - 2 hour days per month plus 100 - 2 hour days for the horse (which was any days over and above the 10 for board). A 4 hour weekend day was the same as 2 days at 2 hours during the week. You could be working animals which meant a min number of animals worked not an hour rate or manual labor which was the hour rate. It would roughly take a year to pay off horse with board included. Other bills like farrier and vet, worming, etc. were your responsibility. They were owed to the person doing the service not me so you also had to have a way to cover those costs because I expected adequate care for the animal while on my property and until paid off you could not remove the animal from my property. It usually works out cash payments for work are chosen and you can save for that animal or buy another when you have enough put away. It is rare around here to find work for horse and more common to find work for board or lessons. ETA if the animal did not have a 2000 dollar value then the number of days could be less if worth less or more if worth more but a value was agreed upon before a contract was signed.

Last edited by QtrBel; 08-23-2015 at 07:54 AM.
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post #19 of 19 Old 08-23-2015, 10:21 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
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Good that you are getting more information. You now have an idea of what it will cost in $ if you take the offer (barring any emergency vet bills) You still need to know what the $ amount of the work that is expected of you is to balance this out.

I would guess that they got this horse for very little money or free and decided that they can write off any money they have already invested in him and can have a steady income by him being a boarder. Nice that they are offering to have his teeth done and provide a blanket but if no one takes the offer they would need to do that anyway.

While they say they are "giving" you Boe it seems like a lease. They like the horse and want him to stay on the property and make something on him through the board. They will take him back if things don't work out? That is fine if they sign him over to you with the right of first refusal, but what would happen if for some reason you wanted to keep him but change barns? Best to know what strings are actually attached here. Saying that they don't want him jumped for awhile is the right thing but it is also telling you what you can and can't do with your own horse.
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