Giving Treats: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 134 Old 04-18-2015, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by waresbear View Post
Time saver cookies I call 'em.
Gasp! Not a Short Cut??
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post #52 of 134 Old 04-18-2015, 08:43 PM
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Hehe, no timesaver, because I never intended taking the long cut or short cut, I take the easy cut.
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I am not here to promote anythingNo, that's not true, I am here to promote everything equestrian and everyone enjoying horses!
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post #53 of 134 Old 04-18-2015, 09:49 PM
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Yes, I have been known to take the easy way at times, as my son left a bag of horse cookies here, after the winter his horses spent here, while he was going through a divorce
However, I hate having a horse you have to bribe to catch, and expect all of my horses to be easy to halter , without that food bribe.
Very true that horses are strongly motivated by food, plus mares and stallions, also by sex drive
Does not mean I used to catch our stallion by bringing a mare to his gate!
And yes, I expect my horses to work for me out of a desire to please, and not due to a food reward.
Does not mean I might not give them a cookie, after a work session, while un saddling
This forum is headed, new to horses', so even if some of us deviate as to what would be considered good horsemanship, using judgement , gained over time, to make those exceptions, I don't think it is solid advise to tell anyone just learning about horses to go ahead and use treats, esp hand fed, JMO
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post #54 of 134 Old 04-18-2015, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxtail Ranch View Post
We often feed treats, alfalfa pellets mostly. They come running when I call them in the pasture, even for work.
I just started with alfalfa pellets, and my horses seem a little more nuts for them than they are for apples and carrots. I also feed salad waste from time to time. I've never used any kind of candy.

My two geldings are out on a long hilly ten acre pasture, and even though you can walk up to them any time, I strongly prefer not spending ten minutes tromping around looking for them. At night it could take twice that long. With treats, they come when I call.

To enforce feeding manners I do one simple thing every time. Before each treat, each horse has to take one step back and stretch out his neck for the treat. Absolutely no invasion of my personal space.

For somebody new to horses I recommend the book You Can Train Your Horse to Do Anything by Shawna Karrasch. Her web site is Shawna Karrasch and On Target Training | Positive Reinforcement Clicker Training | Horse Training I'm looking forward to her presentation at the Minnesota Horse Expo next weekend.

I'm more of a Clinton Anderson person than a clicker trainer, but for some things, like getting a horse to lower his head for a halter or open his mouth for a bit, clicker training is magically fast and easy. We'll see if by next Sunday night Shawna can convince me I should be doing more of it.
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post #55 of 134 Old 04-18-2015, 11:25 PM
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However, I hate having a horse you have to bribe to catch,
Agreed. I don't think bribery is necessarily a bad thing, but I do think it's generally not the greatest idea. There is a big difference between bribing/luring & positive reinforcement.

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Does not mean I used to catch our stallion by bringing a mare to his gate!
I think this is missing the point somewhat actually. Just because something is desirable to a horse doesn't mean that it should be used, or is appropriate, or that because one thing isn't, means that other desirable things can't be either.

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And yes, I expect my horses to work for me out of a desire to please, and not due to a food reward.
I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you Smiley! I don't believe in 'desire to please' as in an animal wants to please you just because you're The Owner. Whether it's due to rewards(food or otherwise), or negative reinforcement(relief from undesirable stuff/pressure), horses do what works & quit doing what doesn't work. If they 'desire to please' it is because there is something *else* in it for them, be that food rewards or otherwise.

Quote:
This forum is headed, new to horses', so even if some of us deviate as to what would be considered good horsemanship, using judgement , gained over time, to make those exceptions, I don't think it is solid advise to tell anyone just learning about horses to go ahead and use treats, esp hand fed
I get your point - tho not that you appear to be saying in your opinion, rewarding horses is bad horsemanship - and agree fully with cautioning people, esp inexperienced ones. I don't however think that's about food treats particularly though, but whatever you use, reinforcement or punishment, positive or negative you need to be aware of what exactly you're allowing/reinforcing, and conscious of dangerous behaviour that can be inadvertently taught.

Eg. people need to be cautious about the dangers of negatively reinforcing(removal of 'pressure') the wrong behaviours too, but that's not to say that using negative reinforcement should therefore be avoided by 'newbies'. Learning behavioural principles will better enable people to understand how to be effective - and safe - with whatever they use.
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post #56 of 134 Old 04-19-2015, 01:45 AM
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hI Loosie

Well, good thing about boards like this, we can agree to disagree at times, as that keeps good discussions going!
I am not naive enough, to think my horses sit in the pasture, dreaming up ways please me, nor prefer to be with me, versus their own kind, like a dog!
Still, there is the fact that some horses have more 'try', and mares in particular, once you get that special bond with them, will give that extra try, that has no relationship to either food or just that release from pressure.
I truly believe they have a certain desire to please, that goes above and beyond either negative or positive re-enforcement
I'll just keep that thought, when I call Charlie, and she answers with a whinny, coming up to me in the pasture, without that immediate food reward.
Could be she has me fooled though, as she knows if I am going to ride her, good chance she gets tied up where that feeder pail is hanging in the barn isle, and when she looks into it, I will be a sucker and give her some beet pulp!
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post #57 of 134 Old 04-19-2015, 02:08 AM
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I believe treats have a time and a place! You just have to make sure that the horse associates the treat with whatever it did right. I am guilty of just bringing some down at times though to give him but at the moment hes abit pudgy so he hasn't gotten any for awhile.
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post #58 of 134 Old 04-19-2015, 02:20 AM
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I am guilty of just bringing some down at times though to give him but at the moment he's abit pudgy so he hasn't gotten any for awhile.
Your horse is pudgy? as in the one in your avatar? you must share pics. from what I understood from stalking about the threads he was a bit too skinny. Congratulations on getting a TB fat. I wish I knew how to make that happen.
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post #59 of 134 Old 04-19-2015, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by lostastirrup View Post
Your horse is pudgy? as in the one in your avatar? you must share pics. from what I understood from stalking about the threads he was a bit too skinny. Congratulations on getting a TB fat. I wish I knew how to make that happen.
Yes, that picture is from 3 months ago he is now a pudgy boy as he was off work while he was skinny (how I got him unfortunately) and until I found a good instructor.

1907740_10205932046797041_1432313761172072717_n.jp g Photo by RainaIsabella | Photobucket
This is him maybe a month ago hes really round now
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post #60 of 134 Old 04-19-2015, 02:49 AM
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RainaIsabella- Wow he looks really good now. and happy. love that face. Surely he deserves a treat or two..or three.
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