Help disrespectful filly - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 05-10-2015, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Help disrespectful filly

I recently got a 11 month filly she's been aprox. 3 weeks with me now. She came from a irresponsible owner who didn't care about her. I was being really good with her but maybe too much because recently she is being pretty naughty and disrespectful with me running away everytime i'm going to get her, and when I get to caught her she start standing in her feet and pulling back to run away throwing kicks and baring her teeth at me What can I do to make her respect me? and I dont want her to be scare of me either
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post #2 of 10 Old 05-10-2015, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NemesisZoe View Post
I recently got a 11 month filly she's been aprox. 3 weeks with me now. She came from a irresponsible owner who didn't care about her. I was being really good with her but maybe too much because recently she is being pretty naughty and disrespectful with me running away everytime i'm going to get her, and when I get to caught her she start standing in her feet and pulling back to run away throwing kicks and baring her teeth at me What can I do to make her respect me? and I dont want her to be scare of me either
By this I take that you don't want to be forceful with her? Gaining respect in any way will not make her afraid of you. Beating her senseless will. I'd keep her in the barn if possible for however long it takes. I had my boy in for a month. I started with tying him. He pulled three rings which I thought were pretty darn solid out of walls. I had to tie him to the support post in the barn. Start by being her everything. She will have to rely on you for everything. Feed, water, and care. Take her on a lead in the barn and back her up. Be firm. Carry a crop, and a lead that is short enough she can't get too far away but long enough that she can have release when she does well. Back her up. Tap her chest with the crop. If she gets snarly whack her good and release. Back her again. If you have to do it more than three times you didn't whack her good enough. Back back back through everything. All over the barn. Get her hind quarters moving. Get her front quarters going. When you master this let her back into the pasture. I'll give you a little background: When I got my colt he was nine months old never touched. They roped him to put the halter on, beat him into the trailer and unloaded in my barn. I had walled off a stall for him but he jumped the walls so I tied him. He was never handled, never haltered or tied. In three days I had him lifting all four feet. He needed me, for food, for water, for everything. When I walked the fence line with him a month later, he didn't pull or run or get fresh because he was in the barn for a month, he followed along nicely because he knew, I was the boss, he needed me. When I let him go, he grazed a bit but never strayed far. Establishing that relationship should be your first goal, and it needs to be done in a completely controlled environment so you nor your horse gets hurt. He kicked me once, (in the barn) it was a playful little tap he'd do outside to another horse for kicks. I made sure he never did that again. I had the crop and my hand and I have him a few GOOD slaps with it in quick succession and made sure he felt it. I went on with business as usual. It's been almost a year and he's never threatened me since.
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post #3 of 10 Old 05-10-2015, 01:54 AM
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It is being a horse, that you are seeing. She is establishing who is running the show, and if you don't get her in hand, you will be in trouble

They all pretty much do this, and starting very young too.

We had bucket baby, couple months old or so, had her stall in corner of arena and she was given free roaming during parts of day and evening.

I went in gate to hang her bucket and she came up and double barreled me, but got bucket, I backed out gate, set bucket down and went back in with lash whip and popped that rear end and made her move around arena.

Not long, but enough to know she wasn't going to act like that.

This animal will get big enough to seriously hurt you, correcting her and reminding her who is in charge, will keep you alive.

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post #4 of 10 Old 05-10-2015, 09:36 AM
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At 11 months she is already big enough to do serious damage with a well aimed kick or well timed bite. I agree with putting her in a much smaller space like the barn and being her end all be all. No matter how she was treated in the past you are a different person and she will try to establish dominance unless you teach her that is not her place. We bought a 6 month old for my niece. Great lines, good mind, generally laid back. He was a dream for us because we had his number and a handle on him from day one. 4 years later they came to pick him up. I gave her the same advice in addition to "DO NOT get another horse until he is settled with you and you have established yourself as boss". They turned around and bought an OTTB since of course he would need a buddy and now they have two out of control horses that think they are higher in the pecking order than they are.
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post #5 of 10 Old 05-10-2015, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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thanks to all of you for your advice. So that's what it is She's trying to see who's the boss by bullying me around. That's what I thought :/
She's the first horse that is really mine ( that I need to care for) I've had two stallions before but they were taken care by my brother, I just went there to ride them and bathe them. So I'm new to this I would appreciate any additional advice anyone has to offer. Thank you again
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post #6 of 10 Old 05-10-2015, 03:40 PM
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Sounds like she's being a kid and testing her parent out to see what she can get away with you. I have a few suggestions for you.
Part of this is a spin off of a Pat Perelli that I designed and some are mixtures of different methods I have picked up from multiple other trainers.
First of all, we have got to get that respect corrected, then we can work on the hard to catch part-which actually may be fixed when we correct the respect. Do you have access to a round pen? It will make this easier, but if not, you can use a lunge line.
First, we have to teach that turning her butt to you is not okay. There are a couple of different ways to go about this depending on your facilities. Go a head and catch her however you need to this time. If you don't have a lungeline or a round pen, you can use just a leadrope. If you use the leadrope method, hold by her head with your left hand, and then the other side of the leadrope in your right hand about a foot from the end. You are going to move toward her butt, don't pull on her head with your left hand. As you step closer to her butt, move your right hand in a circular motion so your leadrope is spinning. The speed of the spin depends on your horse. Your goal here is for your filly to move her butt away from you willingly (without you pulling her head around). I start out slow spinning with little pressure and increase it as needed, you'll just have to listen to what your horse needs. Start out with baby steps, only one step then move up to more steps then repeat this on the other side. For this to be done correctly you must time it perfectly and stop your pressure as soon as her left hindleg crosses over her right hindleg (if you are working on her left side). For the first time, you may have to bump her in the bottom with that leadrope with added pressure until she moves. Once she gets it the first time, if your timing is right you wont have to do that part again. You can also have an aggressive stance if needed to add extra pressure. This teaches her that as you move toward her butt she should move away-thus to never turn her butt to you. On the lungeline or in a roundpen, make sure you NEVER have her turn away from you, always turn her towards you to go to the other side, again, it enforces that their butt should NEVER be in your direction. "As long as your horse has two eyes on you, you can't get kicked" - a quote from one of the trainers I met. I am not a huge pat parelli fan-I don't like the showmanship and the way he presents his ideas-but there are several of his methods that are REALLY good. But you HAVE to have good timing to succeed in these methods. Good luck with your ventures. Try to catch her, groom her and then release her. Or just go catch her, practice the above and then release. You don't want to work her EVERYTIME you catch her or she will get resentful to being caught, and can you blame her? If you are still having problems catching after you have done these, message me on here and I can help you out. You can also contact me through my webpage I have listed on my profile if you want to email me directly.

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post #7 of 10 Old 05-11-2015, 02:13 AM
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You need to get her in a round pen ASAP. Get her feet moving. Send her away and don't let her stop until she has done at least 4 laps. Eyes on eyes. you stair right into the eye that is facing you like your eyes have laser beams in them. Do the crazy lady thing if you have too. Keep your hands wide open like a mountain lion's paw. Have really supper high energy. Like 4 cans of RedBull energy. You may need a long line to throw at her back feet or atop her back to keep the pressure up and her moving. Then turn her in the other direction and do another 4 laps. Again high energy. Make her gallop if you can but nothing less than a canter.

Then turn her around again an lower you energy but keep her moving. If she begins to lick and chew, lowers her head, makes smaller circles and or locks that inside ear on you then you are getting her attention. Turn her around going the opposite direction ever 4 laps until you get 3 of those 4 signs. And even after you get the 3 of the 4 signs watch her that she is dictating when to stop.

Next, when you think she is giving you the 3 of 4 signs willingly and not as a bluff them really lower your energy. Let her stop and face you. if she even thinks of giving you hinny. Send her away for another 4 laps each direction. A fast trot is fine. Once she stops and faces you. Walk to her left shoulder with your body at a 45 degree angle looking at her left shoulder. See if you can get within an arms reach to rub her head.

If she even blinks to bit or give hinny. Bam... Back to work she goes. If she lets you rub her head. Than turn and walk in a half moon shape circle way from her. If she follows good. If not back track and rub her head again to invit her to follow you. If she is just frozen up. Then send her away again.

Do thins untill she follows you around like a puppy dog.

Next. Stop and rub her withers. Then get her to lower her head. You tube has lots of video's. this is a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_k4gKNDnM

Do not leave that round pen until you have done both these exercise. Expect it to take 3 hours. Then when you get it done in 30 minutes all will be good. But if you think you can do this in 30 minutes. Forget it, you'll be there all day.

This your first new day with the horses. If you can groom her afterwards. But my guess is she doesn't even know how to tie yet. Do not under any circumstances use a lunge whip or crop during any of this work.

It looks like she needs all new training on tying, grooming, hoof picking, washing, leading yada, yada, yada... I would invest in a side pull halter. But that's me. It's my #1 piece of training equipment. I would start with leading. that is for both forward and backward motion.

Start each training session a few laps in the round pen. Don't ever lunge her. Point and cluck only. Big energy and/or long line at the feet to get her moving. This gets the stall jitters out.
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-11-2015, 08:03 AM
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Firstly, can people PLEASE write in paragraphs, not huge blocks of text? I know I'm not the only one finds it hard to read that. Punctuation is your friend!

Gee, Gee, we usually agree, but I so don't agree with your suggesion of aggressive round penning & keeping a horse running hard & in a circle. Especially not a youngster. Especially when it sounds like OP is a novice and already got a horse baring her teeth at her!

OP, this horse does absolutely need some lessons, 'discipline', & we don't know what you're trying, teaching, etc, that's not working. But it is SO easy to unwittingly mess up a good horse with bad handling, if you're unsure of what you're doing, and with a big, sharp hooved & toothed animal, that can be... hazardous to your health as well.

So I'd strongly suggest you call in some experienced help, be that pro trainer, your bro, etc, to teach you & safely establish a 'respectful' relationship with the horse.
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post #9 of 10 Old 05-11-2015, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Firstly, can people PLEASE write in paragraphs, not huge blocks of text? I know I'm not the only one finds it hard to read that. Punctuation is your friend!
Ditto!!!!!!! I skip over posts that are more than 10 line paragraphs. I'm Dyslexic.

Quote:
Gee, Gee, we usually agree, but I so don't agree with your suggestion of aggressive round penning & keeping a horse running hard & in a circle. Especially not a youngster. Especially when it sounds like OP is a novice and already got a horse baring her teeth at her!
The young thing can handle it up to an hour. I do it once a month with nasty untrained colts and phillys that are stuck in pipe corrals with the mares. They sweat for the first time and barely breath hard. It's just the first 8 to 10 laps that's really hard. It's just about a 1/3 of a mile.

There adrenalin is so high they feel nothing. It's just to get them over the general flight distance. Anything after that is just to shut down the continuing pump of adrenaline. Get them thinking about doing what horses do best; be efficient. The little thing will soon forget about being scared and start thinking, "wow... I need a rest and to renegotiate this relationship".

I assumed that NemesisZoe (OP) could get the philly into a round pen. If not and the philly has dropped all flight responses and only goes straight to fight. Then don't even try. Stay away and stay safe.

Quote:
OP, this horse does absolutely need some lessons, 'discipline', & we don't know what you're trying, teaching, etc, that's not working. But it is SO easy to unwittingly mess up a good horse with bad handling, if you're unsure of what you're doing, and with a big, sharp hooved & toothed animal, that can be... hazardous to your health as well.

So I'd strongly suggest you call in some experienced help, be that pro trainer, your bro, etc, to teach you & safely establish a 'respectful' relationship with the horse.
If this horse is that bad, then yes. A professional is the only way to go. The horse needs to learn ground manners in a hurry. But getting control of her and establishing a partnership must be done first.

For the record: My “establishing a partnership” is the same as your “establish a 'respectful' relationship” or others who just demand “respect” from a horse. It's just that as part of my business. I don't believe or teach that a horse has the capacity to “respect” a human being. It's a small matter of semantics here but means a lot from where I stand in my daily work.
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post #10 of 10 Old 05-11-2015, 08:54 PM
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The young thing can handle it up to an hour. I do it once a month with nasty untrained colts
I disagree that running hard in circles for an hour is great for a horse, let alone such an immature one, but the physical aspect is but one problem I have. I don't agree with aggressive round penning, or the 'Join Up' style I've seen, no so many levels. I don't want to act like a predator with my horses.

Quote:
There adrenalin is so high they feel nothing. ... The little thing will soon forget about being scared and start thinking, "wow... I need a rest and to renegotiate this relationship".
When adrenaline/fear is high, ability to *think* as opposed to just react is very low. Therefore I'd rather not put them in that state in the first place, so they don't have to 'forget about being scared',avoid/minimise scaring them in the first place.

And 'forgetting scared' is not easy, I think your last sentence above is unreasonably anthropomorphic. That's not likely the rationale behind the results you see IMO.

Quote:
If this horse is that bad, then yes. A professional is the only way to go.
IMO it's not that the horse sounds 'that bad' at all, just that she has a novice owner & I agree with - & have seen too often - that 'green on green = black & blue'. Especially when they're turned loose in a small enclosure & then hustled aggressively.
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