Horse Hates Blanket, Dangerously Sprinting Around! - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 46 Old 01-27-2017, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by its lbs not miles View Post
If he needs the stall at night, then just leave it access to the open stall. The horse will use it if they feel they need it.
Not everyone has access to run in stalls. I've only ever seen one barn in my life that actually had run in stalls, they really aren't practical here for most of the year.
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post #22 of 46 Old 01-27-2017, 10:11 AM
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Most modern blankets have wide temperature ranges, allow for airflow & wicking.
A horse violently shivering needs something besides hay. A shelter is ideal but all it takes in 1 horse to keep others out.
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post #23 of 46 Old 01-27-2017, 10:29 AM
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I will say my horse has total of 6 different blanket weights, all Rambo/Rhino/Amigo. I change daily based on the temperature. I have also never seen a horse who is appropriately blanketed sweat underneath and get chilled. Even then, I've seen many horses whose owners only have one heavy weight blanket and will wear it when the temp gets to around or above freezing, still no sweating.

OP needs to teach her mare to accept the blanket regardless. Sooner or later she is going to have to wear one, be it a cooler after a hard ride or a pretty sheet for a photo shoot.
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post #24 of 46 Old 01-27-2017, 10:31 AM
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Horses are not the brightest of creatures when it comes to their welfare. I have seen them out shivering in the rain when they could be inside a shelter. The only time they used the shelter was when it was hot and flies about.

Now, get a donkey running with them and that will go into the shelter in the rain and the horses will follow it.

I do know that with the youngsters, if it was very wet they would go out the barn, walk to the track, turn around and come in. Times when they were out and it was nasty weather, they would see me at the barn and call out for me to go get them. The first thing they did when they got in was to roll off the excess water in their deep bed.

So, if the horse is cold and wet it will shiver off more weight than it can eat. I know when I have had them out in inclement weather they will stand at a hedge miserable and not want to move to where the food is. What is the point of feeding them just so they loose a lot of weight?
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post #25 of 46 Old 01-28-2017, 02:39 AM
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I 've never seen a horse, of any breed, that was not capable of keeping itself warm if provided a place to get out of weather. Regardless of where it was from.
And if it cant get *adequately* out of the weather, considering type of weather & where its from? For eg. Fully natural environs without accress to stalls. Perhaps its from a tropical climate, a cushy heated barn, an over rugged recent past... or from breeding or clipping that provides no thick coat. Or from hard, sweaty work to a very cold windy night...

My point is that i agree with you to a very large degree. I believe horses *generally* dont need & are better off without rugs. There are definitely 'cons' to wrapping a horse up, which need to be understood & taken into account. But i find your attitude about it a bit extreme. There are exceptions to the 'rules' & *when appropriate for the situation/horse, theres nothing wrong with & lots right with rugging imo.

For eg. When i first got my littlest pony, it was late winter & he'd been rugged to the nines in a doona with neck rug. He had a very fine coat. I did keep him rugged for the rest of that winter & colder spring nights, taking care to make sure it was off any half reasonable days. He did fine growing a coat by next year & none of mine have worn a rug in the 10 years since.

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To put it into perspective ... you'll be wearing modified boxing cloves with no thumbs
Not sure i get your perspective there. But to use your analogy, just because they might get too hot or too cold, just because they cant get changed by themselves, would you send asmall child outside on a freezing day inadequately dressed? I think it would be far more sensible to dress them as you would do, and monitor them/the weather, if you reckon theyre going to get too hot or cold.

Trouble with the above analogy for horses is far too many people dont think enough about what might be good for the horse & why. Far too many people cant/wont visit however many times daily, to ensure their horse is not over or under dressed. In that case, i do believe horses are better off rugless. But thats not to say rugs are bad news any more than dressing a child as YOU see fit is. Its doing stuff without understanding, without consideration(they all rug their horses all winter so i must...) thats the prob, like so many other things. Horseshoes & bits for eg.
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post #26 of 46 Old 01-28-2017, 08:53 AM
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We keep horses in enclosed spaces, in the would they would move to a place where there was adequate shelter in the lea of the wind and rain. They cannot always do that in a pasture.

Back in the 70s we had a heavy snowfall. I walked about 9 miles, five to get home from where I spent the night and four to where I had four yearlings turned out. It was bitter withna north easterly wind making the drifts even bigger.

On reaching their field I couldn't see hide not hair of them. I humped a bale of hay on my back and trudged down the field, right at the bottom end there they were in the shelter of some thorn trees. The snow was about a foot deep on top of the trees, which weren't very high. By the surrounding snow that had been 'outside' for a play and were back under cover. I fed them under the trees, the stream they drank from was close. They were fine.

Horses close by were miserable because they had little shelter from the weather.
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post #27 of 46 Old 01-28-2017, 09:06 AM
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This is going to be fun :))) For those who don't know it, loosie and I have great respect for each other and don't often get a chance to actually disagree. That's why this is going to be "fun" :))))) (even if we're not really "disagreeing")

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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
And if it cant get *adequately* out of the weather, considering type of weather & where its from? For eg. Fully natural environs without accress to stalls. Perhaps its from a tropical climate, a cushy heated barn, an over rugged recent past... or from breeding or clipping that provides no thick coat. Or from hard, sweaty work to a very cold windy night...
The warm climate example really doesn't hold up IF you've provided the horse with the means of helping itself (if you can't then you probably should have one, but that's a different issue). As for the rest you're just making my point. "cushy heated barn, over rugged recent past" (I did comment on extended covering impacting it's ability to function as nature intended in my first post). So if people treat horses like horses as they should be treated, then you don't have these problems. i.e. if they didn't mess the horse up to begin with they would need it...and why do they get messed up to begin with????, because people go around perpetuating the idea that horses have to have our protection from the elements (Now I'm not addressing horses that are not maintained properly, in poor health or have other issues....nature culls those out....just referring to normally healthy and well taken care of animals that this treatment would will fall under "killing them with kindness". It's not different than people who feed incorrectly....even Secretariat was "killed with kindness" at 19, because they followed what people have made into "traditional" practices and not what the horse really needed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
My point is that i agree with you to a very large degree. I believe horses *generally* dont need & are better off without rugs. There are definitely 'cons' to wrapping a horse up, which need to be understood & taken into account. But i find your attitude about it a bit extreme. There are exceptions to the 'rules' & *when appropriate for the situation/horse, theres nothing wrong with & lots right with rugging imo.
IF people followed that concept this discussion wouldn't be happening :)). If only the horses that actually needed to be rugged were ever rugged (blanketed for those who aren't familiar with the British terms....loosie is from "down under") :)), then most people would NEVER get to see a horse that was rugged and you would need to find a vet or equine medical supplier to get one, because they would be rather uncommon (relatively speaking). You are of course entitled to your opinion though :).

Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
For eg. When i first got my littlest pony, it was late winter & he'd been rugged to the nines in a doona with neck rug. He had a very fine coat. I did keep him rugged for the rest of that winter & colder spring nights, taking care to make sure it was off any half reasonable days. He did fine growing a coat by next year & none of mine have worn a rug in the 10 years since.
You're making my point in spades )). Improper care (i.e. being rugged) messed up your "littlest pony". who clearly would have fine if the previous owners had left him as nature intended from the start. You, however, being more knowledgeable about equines, did was needed to reverse the damage and returned the animal back to it's normal and proper state. You case with that pony is, again, making my point :).

Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Not sure i get your perspective there. But to use your analogy, just because they might get too hot or too cold, just because they cant get changed by themselves, would you send asmall child outside on a freezing day inadequately dressed? I think it would be far more sensible to dress them as you would do, and monitor them/the weather, if you reckon theyre going to get too hot or cold.
If I send a small child out in the cold, bundled to the level I think is appropriate, but it turns out not to be, that child has two options that it can exercise (heaven knows I did and so did my children). They can remove some of the bundle if it's too much or they can come in and say "dad, I'm cold" or "I'm too hot". The poor horse, being dumb animal (dumb actually means unable to speak for those who only think it's slang for someone who's stupid) and without opposing thumbs :) cannot make use of either of those options.


Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Trouble with the above analogy for horses is far too many people dont think enough about what might be good for the horse & why. Far too many people cant/wont visit however many times daily, to ensure their horse is not over or under dressed. In that case, i do believe horses are better off rugless. But thats not to say rugs are bad news any more than dressing a child as YOU see fit is. Its doing stuff without understanding, without consideration(they all rug their horses all winter so i must...) thats the prob, like so many other things. Horseshoes & bits for eg.
Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but it must be remembered that the human child (or adult) was not designed and equipped by nature with the ability to self regulate using only the brain and the "cover" that we came with. We have opposable thumbs and over our evolution developed the means of protecting ourselves just as nature did with the horse for 10 million years. Rugs are actually very bad news for horses. Not that they don't have a use, but the VAST majority of horse owners should never even have to see a rug/blanket. With the rare exceptions of a horse that is ill or has some other physical condition that would make it an exception (e.g. emaciated, etc.... which would cause it to be culled in nature) a normal horse should never see a rug/blanket (except a saddle blanket) :)) in it's lifetime. Most horses that "need" blankets today only need them because an owner was using one when it wasn't needed until eventually it became "needed" but even then it puts the horse at risk since it's now with, or without, that rug/blanket it's still unable to control how hot or cold it is.

Now, see how much fun that was :)))

They're always going to be bigger and stronger so you better always be smarter. (One of my grandfather's many pearls of wisdom)
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post #28 of 46 Old 01-28-2017, 01:20 PM
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Should have known this was going to become a blanketing debate.

All I can say is that "they are all equipped by nature with the ability and knowledge" is not true. Modern day horses are often bred in ways contrary to what nature would do....and as for knowledge...heh.

And my gelding that shivers when it's cold and wet? Well he is a smart horse and does spend his time standing in the stall. Lots of people don't have a set up that allows for that and I assure you I have seen plenty of horses far too stupid to figure things out.

They're NOT the way "nature intended" these days, unless you're pulling a horse off the range. They're also not USED to living the way nature intended.

Not a cold example, but I knew a horse with access to a nice pen with shade and a breeze and a nice run in shed who on hot days would start bolting around frantically to come in. Is that what "nature intends"?

As I already said, it's not as simple as "blanket good" "blanket bad" nor is it relevant as the OP wants her horse used to the blanket (which carries over to a lot of other things).

For my 3 that are being blanketed (off and on depending on weather) one's the wimpy guy who likes it, one has Cushings and has also had weight issues due to, and the other is boarded and is shut in at night and was also being worked. None of them NEED it, no, but I definitely have reasons for doing it. Funny how they expect and enjoy it.

When you keep a horse born and bred and raised "as nature intended" in a natural environment with natural management....that's very different.
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post #29 of 46 Old 01-28-2017, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by its lbs not miles View Post


If I send a small child out in the cold, bundled to the level I think is appropriate, but it turns out not to be, that child has two options that it can exercise (heaven knows I did and so did my children). They can remove some of the bundle if it's too much or they can come in and say "dad, I'm cold" or "I'm too hot". The poor horse, being dumb animal (dumb actually means unable to speak for those who only think it's slang for someone who's stupid) and without opposing thumbs :) cannot make use of either of those options.




When your children were too small to talk and definitely too small to remove their own outerwear, did you just keep them inside??

I am an early childhood teacher and a portion of my job IS dressing 16 kids, ages 2.5 and under, for the weather outside. At least 2/3rds of those children, at any given time, are too young to dress themselves and/or effectively communicate if they are too hot or too cold. They can cry to let me know that they are uncomfortable, but that's usually the extent of the communication they are capable of - in regards to clothing.

It's up to me to look at what I want to wear going outside, the temperature out there, the wind/rain/etc, and dress the children with that in mind. As I get to know each child, I learn which kids run hotter than I do and which run colder - some kids need more clothes and others need less. Some absolutely always need gloves, others really don't.


It's literally exactly the same with blanketing horses.
Some horses get cold easily, others don't, and, if you're paying attention, it's not hard to learn a particular horse's blanketing needs.
Blanketing should never be a one-size-fits-all thing.

For instance, my gelding has a tying-up disorder which renders him particularly prone to tying-up when he is cold. It's a common occurrence in muscle myopathy horses - muscles clench when they are cold, and a horse with a tying-up issue has a hard time unclenching his/her muscles.
He'd be fine if I didn't blanket him, in the sense that he wouldn't probably keel over dead, but he would be in an incredible amount of pain. Unblanketed in the winter [with a suitable shelter, etc], he loses a massive amount of weight, despite free-feeding on high quality hay

I never wanted to blanket my gelding, but I had to make the choice between keeping him warm and healthy, vs letting him live naturally and in extreme pain.


I keep a very close eye on my gelding, his muscle tone, and his blankets. I know which blankets for which temperatures, and I blanket accordingly. I know his signs when he is too warm or too cold, and I listen to him when he tells me what he needs.



One size does not fit all.
Blanketing is certainly something that shouldn't be taken lightly, it drives me nuts when I see a thin sheet thrown on a horse with a well-fluffed coat because the weather has turned cold. You have to replace the lost hair-fluff with blanket fill, at the very very least. You can't just throw any blanket on any horse and assume that he/she must be feeling better because he/she has a blanket on, the blanket MUST be appropriate for the weather.
But, in the proper hands, blanketing can do an incredible amount of good, especially for elderly and special needs horses.
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post #30 of 46 Old 01-28-2017, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallaby View Post
When your children were too small to talk and definitely too small to remove their own outerwear, did you just keep them inside??

I am an early childhood teacher and a portion of my job IS dressing 16 kids, ages 2.5 and under, for the weather outside. At least 2/3rds of those children, at any given time, are too young to dress themselves and/or effectively communicate if they are too hot or too cold. They can cry to let me know that they are uncomfortable, but that's usually the extent of the communication they are capable of - in regards to clothing.

It's up to me to look at what I want to wear going outside, the temperature out there, the wind/rain/etc, and dress the children with that in mind. As I get to know each child, I learn which kids run hotter than I do and which run colder - some kids need more clothes and others need less. Some absolutely always need gloves, others really don't.


It's literally exactly the same with blanketing horses.
Some horses get cold easily, others don't, and, if you're paying attention, it's not hard to learn a particular horse's blanketing needs.
Blanketing should never be a one-size-fits-all thing.

For instance, my gelding has a tying-up disorder which renders him particularly prone to tying-up when he is cold. It's a common occurrence in muscle myopathy horses - muscles clench when they are cold, and a horse with a tying-up issue has a hard time unclenching his/her muscles.
He'd be fine if I didn't blanket him, in the sense that he wouldn't probably keel over dead, but he would be in an incredible amount of pain. Unblanketed in the winter [with a suitable shelter, etc], he loses a massive amount of weight, despite free-feeding on high quality hay

I never wanted to blanket my gelding, but I had to make the choice between keeping him warm and healthy, vs letting him live naturally and in extreme pain.


I keep a very close eye on my gelding, his muscle tone, and his blankets. I know which blankets for which temperatures, and I blanket accordingly. I know his signs when he is too warm or too cold, and I listen to him when he tells me what he needs.



One size does not fit all.
Blanketing is certainly something that shouldn't be taken lightly, it drives me nuts when I see a thin sheet thrown on a horse with a well-fluffed coat because the weather has turned cold. You have to replace the lost hair-fluff with blanket fill, at the very very least. You can't just throw any blanket on any horse and assume that he/she must be feeling better because he/she has a blanket on, the blanket MUST be appropriate for the weather.
But, in the proper hands, blanketing can do an incredible amount of good, especially for elderly and special needs horses.
This. Oh and I missed this: "If only the horses that actually needed to be rugged were ever rugged.....then most people would NEVER get to see a horse that was rugged and you would need to find a vet or equine medical supplier to get one, because they would be rather uncommon (relatively speaking)." just doesn't make sense to me. So my gelding with Cushings and laminitis should not have a blanket? Wallaby's gelding with a muscle disorder should not be blanketed?
Unfortunately there are far more "special needs" horses than you would care to admit, again with the whole "nature" thing. And I just wanted to point out in many climates many horses are clipped at least once a year. Do those horses not NEED a blanket? In fact I can't think of a single barn I've been to that at least one horse did not NEED a blanket, and at a lot of the show barns every single horse is body clipped or at least trace. It's been a very warm winter, the coldest we've had is "only" single digits + wind chill on a few nights, so maybe they'll be fine naked outside?

Even if the horses that didn't need blankets didn't have them (which I do agree with) it would be far from uncommon.
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