How bad is "bad" - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkInEncinitas View Post
Yeah, she probably realizes this but just can't bear to let them starve/dehydrate.

When she runs out of funds to feed them,their going to end up in the same situation they were in before. I'd let the humane society deal with them,if there's no food or water they will take action.
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post #12 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 11:51 AM
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I definitely believe this would be abuse and neglect. No horse should be kept in those conditions with no food and water. I really hope someone can step in and get these horses away from this situation
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post #13 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 01:23 PM
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i know it sounds rough, but the rescue has moved into the position of being an enabler here...IMO best thing to do is step back, let it get bad again then start the photos and filming of the place...then report to police, authorities etc. if they won't act id spread the word on social media...only other option i can see is to offer to buy the horses from the owner just to get them out of the situation, then rehome them from there...
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post #14 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkInEncinitas View Post
The property owner is aware of the rescue owner feeding and watering and otherwise caring for the horses on his property. The rescue owner has full permission to do this. As I said the rescue owner does this from her own funds because if she didn't no one would take care of these horses. She continues to work the situation re getting the authorities involved. Apparently it's not as easy as just taking some snapshots and making a phone call.

As far as Humane Society not acting, well, the reality of the situation is that frequently they simply don't act. I've been to another ranch in SD county that was much worse than this. Horses slowly starving amidst piles of their own manure. The HS has been informed of this one multiple times and has essentially done nothing about it. The rescue owner can cite other cases similar to these.

No I haven't named the organization I'm working with. It's a registered 501c3. I don't see any reason to bring names into this.
I assume the horses owner is also aware..?

They won't act if the horses appear to be cared for, even if it's only occasionally.

I didn't ask nor care about the name of the organization. I just wanted to know if is a legitmate rescue.

If so she should be worked with law enforcement (which you say she is) to confiscate the horses and should be working with the owners to take possession of the animals.

Going and feeding them should not be coming out of the rescues pockets until they have possession. If it's coming out of her personal pockets that obviously no ones business but her own but it's not fair either.

If it's a legitimate rescue they should be working to take possession of the animals themselves and I'm confused why that hasn't happened yet.

ETA- yes the owners should be talked into surrendering if seizing isn't an option (maybe even buying since the lady seems to have enough money to throw away on them), but I can guarantee if you keep on doing all the work they won't surrender. They get the horses and free care, sweet! I would skip a couple days of hay if I got free care (no I wouldn't but you get the point).

I agree with "enabler". I understand it's hard to see them suffer but sometimes it's for the best (short term)
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post #15 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I hear you all and agree. All I can do is repeat your logic to her and hope she comes to agree as well.

The guy wants a silly price (7k I think) for the two horses and won't budge on it and the rescue doesn't really have the room for any more horses at this time. I don't know what the rescue typically pays at feedlot auctions but I had the impression it was more along the lines of a few hundred per horse vice a few thousand.

We're getting into details that I really don't have the facts for.

I appreciate everyone's input. If the situation changes I'll post an update.
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post #16 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 02:50 PM
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Yeah of course they want that much when again they get free care plus horses.. :/

Agree the price is absurd and should not be paid.

I understand where you're coming from. I'm glad you see what we are trying to say.

Short term the horses are better off with your help but long term they really aren't so it may be better for them to be left alone short term to fix the long term.

I hope things work out well :/
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post #17 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 03:57 PM
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You can call a local newstation.. In the San Diego area and I bet they would jump on the little headline news story. The 'lady' would get free publicity, it may just shame the owner into surrending the horses.
Is the property Owner the owner of the horses ? There is also the Board of supervisors who have control over animal control, go file a complaint with them.
Call Code Commission , most Calif counties state manure must be Removed weekly , Some places are Daily.
There are always other agencies to report neglect. Board of Supervisors or whomever AC reports , Code Commission , they will Fine the poop out of the Property owner, News Stations . The lady whom runs the rescue should know of all this . Sounds like she needs to brush up on local laws and ordinance codes .
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post #18 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 04:07 PM
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Also check with the Sheriff's Department. In our county they will often step in when our worthless Humane Society ignores a neglect situation. It helps that we have a Mounted Deputy section in the Sheriff's Department completely funded by the deputies themselves. In our case, they do know horses, will come onto a property with a formal complaint from someone and inspect the situation. Then the owners can and will be prosecuted for neglect.

Unfortunately this was done in one situation recently after several complaints and when the horse owners were cited, there was suddenly a mysterious barn fire and 4 horses burned to death. The owner's insurance company would not pay because of suspicious circumstances and every horse person in the county knows that they burned those poor horses alive to get rid of the problem.

Amazing how sick some people can be and I hope Karma comes and gives them back everything they deserve!
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post #19 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 06:39 PM
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Ah...it is situations like this one here that make me roll on the floor laughing when I see the "ANIMAL CRUELTY a felony in US!!!" and FBI will track it.

Sure they will.


Whoever is going in there and doing the clean up, needs to file a formal complaint and sign charges for neglect, or that is what I would be doing if could.

Might have to be civil case, but needs to be done.

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post #20 of 40 Old 10-15-2014, 11:50 PM
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First, get the facts on what constitutes abuse in your state. There are no meaningful national standards - this is going to be at the state level. Figure out if the abuse law even applies to horses (it often does NOT, as horses are frequently classified as livestock), and if not, what laws *do* apply to horses. (If, frankly, any do. )

Once you know what constitutes actionable abuse, you're in a better position to document faults (and you'll also know what not to bother telling HS about. Yes the horse is skinny, no they don't care, unless there is LITERALLY NO FOOD). Again, the crappy minimal laws are all HS have to work with, so work with them as much as possible -- give them what they need to make a legal case.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling you're going to discover that no meaningful legislation exists, and the owner engaging in passive neglect until they die is perfectly legal. (UGH) In that case, your only option is to get the owner to surrender the horses/sell -- a challenge, I realize!

It's a tough situation, no easy answers. Probably the place to start is to simply nail down what, if any, state laws apply.
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