I'm sick of lessons and chasing some ideal in someone else's mind - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 59 Old 12-04-2016, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JCnGrace View Post
Surely they don't demand you take those 5 lessons a week, do they?
No, they don't, they might be a bit miffed if I cut down to one but they would get over it. However, I do need lessons which actually improve my riding, and I can't seem to get them at my barn (most probably my fault). The barn doesn't allow outside instructors. I don't have a trailer or a car so driving out for lessons is not really an option.
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post #52 of 59 Old 12-04-2016, 01:29 PM
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I do not think that I would take any novice rider for five arena lessons a week.
My belief and experience says that once a rider is reasonably confident, has balance and can keep their hands steady then go out and about for lessons, using a lead rein if necessary.
Talk about all sorts of things, the trees, films, whatever so that the learner relaxes, gets the feel of the natural movement without having to worry about bending the horses around the corners of an arena. In relaxing their balance will improve and with that their seat. They get a sample of what riding is about - going on trails, seeing views and just the pleasure of being with a horse.

I do not nag them to keep their heels jammed down or sit tall with a hollow back, I let them find their most comfortable position, improvements can come later.
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post #53 of 59 Old 12-04-2016, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Foxhunter View Post
I do not think that I would take any novice rider for five arena lessons a week.
My belief and experience says that once a rider is reasonably confident, has balance and can keep their hands steady then go out and about for lessons, using a lead rein if necessary.
Talk about all sorts of things, the trees, films, whatever so that the learner relaxes, gets the feel of the natural movement without having to worry about bending the horses around the corners of an arena. In relaxing their balance will improve and with that their seat. They get a sample of what riding is about - going on trails, seeing views and just the pleasure of being with a horse.

I do not nag them to keep their heels jammed down or sit tall with a hollow back, I let them find their most comfortable position, improvements can come later.
I might have misrepresented myself a bit, I started riding four years ago and have my own horse. I've ridden about 30 different horses (including some real serious buckers, nappers and one sneaky rearer), manged to get true collection on 3 :) I've been on about twenty 40km trail rides (w/t/c) and I hack out alone, including galloping. Also, I can jump up to about 70cm, but I'm not particularly interested in jumping.

All in all, I do need pushing with lessons but I just don't seem to be able to click with this instructor, or her riding style. I know enough to see that the aids she is teaching just aren't working for me or my mare.

I finally managed to collect my mare today, using aids I was thought by my previous instructor (highly frowned upon in this barn). And I know it was true collection because my teeth weren't rattling in sitting trott :) Seriously, my mare has this trott that could be used to treat kidney stones :)
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post #54 of 59 Old 12-05-2016, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Horsef View Post
I might have misrepresented myself a bit, I started riding four years ago and have my own horse. I've ridden about 30 different horses (including some real serious buckers, nappers and one sneaky rearer), manged to get true collection on 3 :) I've been on about twenty 40km trail rides (w/t/c) and I hack out alone, including galloping. Also, I can jump up to about 70cm, but I'm not particularly interested in jumping.

All in all, I do need pushing with lessons but I just don't seem to be able to click with this instructor, or her riding style. I know enough to see that the aids she is teaching just aren't working for me or my mare.

I finally managed to collect my mare today, using aids I was thought by my previous instructor (highly frowned upon in this barn). And I know it was true collection because my teeth weren't rattling in sitting trott :) Seriously, my mare has this trott that could be used to treat kidney stones :)
Somewhat off topic, but I'm curious. What aids could you possibly be using to "collect" a horse that are frowned upon? Of course (without asking), I don't know what you could possibly be doing/using that is so frowned upon. However, if you are using aids that are in fact frowned upon my most people, I seriously doubt you had a true collection. May sound harsh, but that my opinion on that.

*Unless people in your barn frown upon a true collection that only comes with time/correct work, I can only imagine what sort of "aids" you must be using that are ill-thought of???
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post #55 of 59 Old 12-05-2016, 10:07 AM
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Seriously, my mare has this trott that could be used to treat kidney stones :)
Best description of a rough trot I've heard yet. Yes, I've felt that kind of trot before.

Celeste
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post #56 of 59 Old 12-05-2016, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Somewhat off topic, but I'm curious. What aids could you possibly be using to "collect" a horse that are frowned upon? Of course (without asking), I don't know what you could possibly be doing/using that is so frowned upon. However, if you are using aids that are in fact frowned upon my most people, I seriously doubt you had a true collection. May sound harsh, but that my opinion on that.

*Unless people in your barn frown upon a true collection that only comes with time/correct work, I can only imagine what sort of "aids" you must be using that are ill-thought of???
I was thought to get the horse going forward and do half halts with the inside rein and apply inside leg, keeping the outside rein and leg firm.

The current barn has some weird combination of squeezing my thighs and taking the inside reign away from the neck without any pressure on the bit.
I'm most likely doing it wrong. They frown upon single rein half halts.

Don't get me wrong, this was maaayyyybe 30 steps of "whatever you want to call it, most probably not true collection", but her trott was a dream to sit for those 30 steps. Her normal trott is ...anything but dreamy :)
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post #57 of 59 Old 12-05-2016, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Horsef View Post
I was thought to get the horse going forward and do half halts with the inside rein and apply inside leg, keeping the outside rein and leg firm.

The current barn has some weird combination of squeezing my thighs and taking the inside reign away from the neck without any pressure on the bit.
I'm most likely doing it wrong. They frown upon single rein half halts.

Don't get me wrong, this was maaayyyybe 30 steps of "whatever you want to call it, most probably not true collection", but her trott was a dream to sit for those 30 steps. Her normal trott is ...anything but dreamy :)
While I don't disagree with 'guiding' the horse, I also (more so) agree with 'lifting' the horse with your legs, working from hind to front rather than pressuring the nose down. Pressuring the nose will put the head down, but will not result in collection at all. A horse cannot collect itself unless and until they build the correct muscle (by working and going correctly). What you are referring to would be a false frame, IMHO. Not to say that guiding a horse is false, but that a true collection comes from time and correct muscling, working from hind to front, rather than "tonight I used my hands/bit to achieve collection".
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post #58 of 59 Old 12-06-2016, 11:31 PM
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It sounds sort of like you are being told to apply aids and techniques without being given an over all mental image of why you are applying them, what you are trying to achieve, or what it would feel like if you did. I'd be extremely frustrated if I were in your position!
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post #59 of 59 Old 12-07-2016, 05:49 AM
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Hello there! I can see where you're coming from but getting your horse to work nicely with you in control is important, and it's always nicer to have something to work towards? It means you're in control and also benefits her training should anyone else ride her or you make the decision to sell her.
Definitely don't agree with the whacking thing before jumping, get out there and jump - it's obviously your thing!
Dulcie x
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