Leading Katie for friend? And RE deaf riders! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 15 Old 03-13-2018, 05:31 PM
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I personally think that it would be better if your friend continued to improve before she rode Katie again, even on a lead rope.
I also think you need to put more miles on her yourself before that happens.


As a hunting horse its quite likely that she's been led off another horse if she was kept on a livery/boarding hunt yard because its how a lot of hunting horses are exercised - and how hunt grooms take second horses out to their riders during the day.
The leading her on foot is something that you'd want to do without a rider on for a few times so you know exactly how she's going to react.
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Just winging it is not a plan
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post #12 of 15 Old 03-13-2018, 07:38 PM
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Sorry, but you're not going to like this...

Honest answer from me....
No, nope, NOT HAPPENING!!

I don't mean to be rude but are you truly that experienced a rider and handler that you can see trouble coming and do the handling and instructing of the rider to get out of a bad situation?
I thought you were just a advanced beginner yourself from what you've written and not riding the horse yet at all or seldom, hence she went on a schoolie line.
The bottom line is I'm hearing excuses. This is a cop-out on your riding school & that riding instructor in particular..
She wants to ride at this school full stop but the instructor told her that all her lesson horses are sensitive and/or forward. That if my friend went there from the start it would have been easier but now that she's in the habit of kicking and hard reining it will be difficult as her horses react strongly to... strong cues
Excuses from the riding program that because your friend started on horses needing firm aides applied, aka kicking and strong contact..and their animals are "sensitive"....
Sorry, so that is where you retrain the rider, giving instruction to become soft in cues and riding technique.
What was learned can be re-learned and improved upon.

Your friend being run-away with by Katie...she would not be getting that chance again to repeat her error nor hurt my horse with her lack of knowledge, experience...whether on a lead shank or not.
Frightened like that it would be a long, long time before she overcomes and can work past her fear in the pit of her gut from your horse..
I just would not subject my horse to this rider for the riders mental well-being and for what that rider will send to Katie via telepathy.
I just see no point in repeating a disaster in the making.
Animals learn things by having it repeated a few times...so Katie has been taught to bolt and what a incapable rider can not do{outsmart and stop her}...a smart horse can now capitalize on that lesson learned and try it again.

If this is the type of situation that your Katie is exposed to on a often basis I would have a big problem with this school and the instruction level at it and what is being taught.
Not every horse should be so sensitive that a "green" rider learning to apply aides is at risk...all lesson horses should be able to be rated. Technically, Katie is on the lesson string.
Does this school not have a string of dedicated lesson horses they outright own but only use horses on a semi-lease situation like yours?
I have a problem with that too...
True lesson horses are a very special kind of horse as they teach so much but are so dependable in their reaction to so many riders...baby-sitters deluxe.
I just could not do this to Katie if she was mine.
Different riders, different degrees of training and aides...never a consistent rider she really learn to ride as a team with.
I just know although you see schooling and exercise I see a great chance of desensitization to you and how you ride. A horse who may not be as cued into you as she should be.
I swear my horses knew what I wanted by me thinking it when I was their dedicated rider...cues were mine and mine alone they listened for...we were a team of dedicated us...just the two of us.

Short answer...NO, do not even let the thought enter this persons mind of riding Katie now, possibly in the far-distant future on a pony-ride lead shank or in a lesson...but now...just no!

I have to agree with what tiny and jaydee both mentioned too...
Words of wisdom from many years of varied experiences and places lived where they still rode and lived with horses so understand things many others just don't know of.
...
jmo...

The worst day is instantly better when shared with my horse.....
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post #13 of 15 Old 03-15-2018, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your feedback - I've been busy but finally got to sit down. I also had a lesson on Katie and got to talk about it more with my instructor as she's the one involved in her training. She said that Katie is a different horse, now. When friend got on her it was Katie's 4th ride since arriving and in an arena she'd never ridden in. Hadn't had a proper run since arriving due to isolation. Had never been in that indoor arena OTHER than to play and buck and fart. It was the morning so she was fresh and full of GO. It was also her second EVER lesson with the instructor (the first was with me the day previous, and she was still very very fresh). She didn't know the horse nor the rider and said that there was no way for her to predict what had happened without knowing both. And yes, I managed to ride her straight after but it was still like riding a bomb that did, indeed, threaten to buck me that same hour. But NOW..........

....... she doesn't see a problem in me leading my friend down the trail. In her words Katie has proven several times hacking out to be a sensible, non-spooking horse. Even to ride, Katie is much more settled and would NOW consider having my friend ride her or at least trialling it. But as for leading, she just reminded me to be safe and use a long line though she said it would take a lot of kicking and full out banshee screaming to get Katie to go like she used to. Which I can agree - with each consecutive ride on her she is less sensitive to the leg. In fact she's becoming too comfortable with it that I had to give her a whack of the reins on her shoulder to remind her what a canter is and to not ignore my first or second cue. We cannot use a crop as she's deathly afraid of it still but now all I have to do is lift the reins as a threat and she lurches forward. I hate that she's so worried about it but it gets the job done >.<

Not that it matters as some drama has happened and the wife is having to quit for a period of time until her husband decides (more in my journal). But I really do value your feedback. I think even without the change in circumstance I wouldn't be 100% committed until the day and how I felt. I am reliable enough that if I had a shadow of a doubt come mount time I wouldn't be so stupid as to follow through at least. You can accuse me of considering "stupid" but you can't accuse me of doing it ;)#


@jaydee sorry missed your response - I've walked Katie down the trail more than I've ridden her. Overall, I've taken her for walks like a dog over double the amount in the saddle. I enjoy it :P Like a saddo, I think. Well, some people think its pointless!

Last edited by Kalraii; 03-15-2018 at 06:54 PM.
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post #14 of 15 Old 03-15-2018, 06:59 PM
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I understand your enthusiasm, I really do! When I got my horses, I wanted to share them with everyone! And then I regretted it a little bit. Once you open that door, and create that expectation, it's hard to close it again when you realize maybe it's not the best thing for the horse to be ridden by new riders who don't really know what they are doing. I feel bad that I put my horses in that position now.

Katie is still new, and getting to know and trust you. I would wait. But if you do decide to let your friend ride her, why not just do it in the arena, where she is in an enclosed area? Start there, on a lead, and see how things go before you take her out on a hack. Just my two cents. :)
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post #15 of 15 Old 03-16-2018, 11:21 AM
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I see nothing wrong or 'sad' in you leading Katie out for walks. Its going to help build up your relationship and get her out and about.
Based on what you say I think she'd probably be perfectly safe for your friend to be led out on - I'm just more thinking on the same lines as AcadianArtist and feel that you need to focus on the bond between you and her rather than start introducing another rider into the mix especially when circumstances dictate that you already have to rely on the yard to do the most of her basic daily care

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