Mustang Adoption - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
 76Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 37 Old 03-01-2016, 07:32 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
We here in Canada, also have feral horses, with the same debates, concerning management, going on
We do have one advantage here though, in the fact that those horses removed from the range, that are not adopted for one reason or another, can be sold for slaughter
Unless policy has changed, that is not so in the USA, according to speakers that I have heard from here.
Apparently, horses not adopted, returned, ect,, can't be sold for slaughter, and thus their numbers being kept, fed at tax payer expenses, is growing exponentially
We do have wolves and cougars that prey on our feral horses.
Yes, there are many good using horses,made by experienced people that capture them, plus there are incentive programs , like those mustang makeovers, prison horse training programs, adoption programs, but they don't come close to providing a viable future for all of these surplus horses
Also, in my area, there is another problem, far as feral horses. They remain a great reservoir for EIA,living where they do,and there needs to be a program that makes mandatory testing of all captured feral horses for EIA
I do believe that the laws that protect feral horses from some of the cruel capture practices in the past, are a good thing> I also believe that if the slaughter option is not available, then there has to be some control of re production. In fact, the mare darting program is being used here for a trial period
There are worse fates the death, with slow starvation being one of them
Are some horses 'more wild' then others, thus deserve to be called a 'heritage ' animal, at least, if not truly native, is another debate. There are isolated herds that have had little outside influence from the time they were first introduced by the Spaniards,and part of what makes the 'west' western, thus should be preserved to some extent
mred likes this.
Smilie is offline  
post #22 of 37 Old 03-02-2016, 05:41 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia USA
Posts: 2,490
• Horses: 1
A trainer that rides 20+horses a day probably doesn't have the time to be messing with a feral horse, nor do they likely need the business. I've seen good reputable trainers be honest and tell people that what they want them to do is a waste of time and money, like someone who wants their 18 year old horse to learn to jump. This particular trainer said "no, if you want to train and show with me, you need a different horse. This horse is too old and not worth the amount of money it will take to train him for the amount of years you will get to use him." I would hope that the trainer hired by hypothetical mustang owner would also be honest about the time frame. I would also hope that the trainer would devote x amount of time to each horse under their care, since that is what they are being paid for. I certainly don't want to pay somebody for them to work with my horse 5 days a week and they only work with the horse one or two.

I don't think all mustang makeover trainers are in it for their ego. Certainly some are, but not all. Some actually just like mustangs. Some do it to get their name out there and show their worth as a trainer. I don't think there is anything wrong with that-people do much the same showing domestic horses. "Look, this is what I have accomplished. This is what I can do." Take Charlotte Dujardin for example. She is now well known because of her record breaking dressage freestyle. She's considered the #1 dressage rider in the world, and now she goes around doing clinics, among other things. I don't think she shows just for her ego.
To me, the mustang makeover and other such events are, in the simplest explanation, a breed show for mustangs.

As per insulting American trainers, I don't think pointing out the average time frame for gentling a mustang is an insult. As I said at the end of the paragraph, the time frame very much depends on the trainer/owner/handler and the horse. I did say "for ones who actually know what they are doing"; I was referring to trainers who work with mustangs or difficult horses as a living. I'm not saying that trainers who don't work with such horses all the time don't know what they are doing. They may not have the time to give to such a horse, as you said. If this is the case, I would hope that they would be upfront with the owners about this, and say "it may take 4-6 months to get this horse going well".

"You can do something wrong for thirty years and call yourself experienced, you can do something right for a week and experience more than someone who spent thirty years doing the wrong thing." ~WhattaTroublemaker
horseluvr2524 is offline  
post #23 of 37 Old 03-03-2016, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4
• Horses: 0
Great info, thanks again
flyliberty is offline  
post #24 of 37 Old 03-03-2016, 08:31 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
I was responding to this summary, by the OP, and so whether mustang makeovers work, not really the issue being asked, but rather the management of the surplus feral horses'

From original post"
The focus of my project is to look for a more ethical solution to the problem of the wild horse overpopulation based on the understanding that this is a human problem, not a horse problem. So far the solutions seem to be adoption, holding pens, fertility control, and a three-strikes policy that puts the horse at fault. Is there any effort to increase the number of ranges? I am specifically interested in ranges in the Pacific Northwest where I live.'

Adoption alone is not going to solve the big picture. Way too many horses to adopt, even though some certainly make good saddle horses, with proper training, but the fact remains, not even all the horses bred today, are bred by the laws of supply and demand, with many domestic horses never trained, becoming surplus and un wanted, let alone adding the number of feral horses breeding un controlled
The surplus number, not adopted, has to go somewhere, besides being tax payer burdens forever, either in holding pens, or on land set aside.
Thus, either the breeding is controlled, by darting some of the mares, or you need the slaughter option
Letting them starve at times, with that slow death, being a population control, is not the answer!

By the way, it is not really just a human problem, as once natural predators have been eliminated, the entire natural balance is gone, although, of course, humans upset the balance int he first place!
mred likes this.
Smilie is offline  
post #25 of 37 Old 03-04-2016, 01:09 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,939
• Horses: 2
I've been to the holding pens in Burns, Oregon and don't feel holding pens are more humane than adoption. I'm not sure about hunting if we're talking about continuing with adoption and keeping the horses usable. It seems the way hunters choose their targets would end up picking off many larger horses and the general population might end up smaller. I'd be for culling the horses for desirable traits, sending the excess to slaughter and getting the numbers down to manageable for the ranges. Then use fertility control to keep the horses' numbers down. There would still be plenty to adopt for those that want to.

People have biases about mustangs that in my experience are untrue. They don't have heightened senses or a more distrustful nature or any of that "bred" into them. Each individual mustang has a temperament based on their life experiences, their genetic makeup (whatever mix of breeds they happen to be) and will respond to training based on those factors along with their age. If you take an Arab that has been left turned out and unhandled until age 10, they will often be every bit as suspicious, difficult to train and have at least as "heightened senses" as any mustang of similar age brought in for training.

Not every mustang is a stock horse, and some may not be as mellow and easy to train as your average QH. This is not due to their being feral, but rather due to the fact that they may perhaps be a mix of breeds that have given them that particular temperament. Then take this horse and train them as a five or six year old unhandled horse, and their reactions are exactly as would be expected.

Let's say a mustang is a mix of Thoroughbred and Spanish bloodlines. That horse might have the reactive nature of the TB along with a tendency to bull ahead or push through when excited, which might be a temperament you could expect but may not find easy to work with.

From what I've seen, some of the mustangs that look similar QH and other stock horse breeds are very, very easy to train and become solid, mellow horses quickly. They will almost train themselves.
One I knew went on his third ride under saddle down to the beach and a helicopter landed nearby while the horse stood calmly in a bosal. You would have thought he was a QH just looking at him.

Some that look like finely built hot bloods act hot and spooky and take a long time to train. Some of the more spanish looking ones are a bit more stubborn but become very steady, if a bit pushy. Some that look more like draft horses behave like some of the draft breeds, which can be a little "thick" to deal with.

In my opinion, calling a horse a mustang and putting a blanket statement on how they will behave is like calling a dog a "pound" dog and thinking any you might adopt will behave the same regardless of the mix of breeds, age or past experiences the dog has had. These things are highly individualized.
bsms, JCnGrace, mred and 1 others like this.
gottatrot is offline  
post #26 of 37 Old 03-04-2016, 02:20 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Northern Florida
Posts: 4,858
• Horses: 4
I think the most ethical solution to the over population of wild/feral horses is to leave their natural predators alone and let them do the job. Wolves were hunted until their numbers were so low that they couldn't make a dent in the numbers of horses or deer or anything else. The same for the cougar. Those two predators are mostly hated by cattle and sheep ranchers who would love to see them completely gone along with the horses. Cattle and sheep are imports to this country and are far greater in numbers than wild horses and are pretty destructive to the land. Horses were actually native to the Americas and Canada before many of them migrated over the bearing straight. The rest were wiped out, probably from climate and vegetation changes. They were also hunted here by the native peoples. Fossils have been found to prove this. To me, calling them feral would be like calling tigers feral if they became extinct in India and then replaced there with tigers that were bred by humans.
If you compared the destructiveness of horses to humans, the horses would be out of the competition.
LoriF is offline  
post #27 of 37 Old 03-04-2016, 05:26 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Palmyra, Wisconsin
Posts: 6,161
• Horses: 4
I'd rather any horse be shot by someone with good aim than sent to slaughter.

If a hunt was allowed would the hunter be expected to pack out the meat?
I can't see a hunter mounting a horse head on a wall so I doubt 'going for a big one' would be a priority unless they wanted more meat.
boots likes this.
natisha is offline  
post #28 of 37 Old 03-04-2016, 05:47 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Palmyra, Wisconsin
Posts: 6,161
• Horses: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriF View Post
I think the most ethical solution to the over population of wild/feral horses is to leave their natural predators alone and let them do the job. Wolves were hunted until their numbers were so low that they couldn't make a dent in the numbers of horses or deer or anything else. The same for the cougar. Those two predators are mostly hated by cattle and sheep ranchers who would love to see them completely gone along with the horses. Cattle and sheep are imports to this country and are far greater in numbers than wild horses and are pretty destructive to the land. Horses were actually native to the Americas and Canada before many of them migrated over the bearing straight. The rest were wiped out, probably from climate and vegetation changes. They were also hunted here by the native peoples. Fossils have been found to prove this. To me, calling them feral would be like calling tigers feral if they became extinct in India and then replaced there with tigers that were bred by humans.
If you compared the destructiveness of horses to humans, the horses would be out of the competition.
How would you make the predators only take the horses?
natisha is offline  
post #29 of 37 Old 03-04-2016, 06:21 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cambridge, MN
Posts: 893
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriF View Post
I think the most ethical solution to the over population of wild/feral horses is to leave their natural predators alone and let them do the job. Wolves were hunted until their numbers were so low that they couldn't make a dent in the numbers of horses or deer or anything else. The same for the cougar. Those two predators are mostly hated by cattle and sheep ranchers who would love to see them completely gone along with the horses.
Last month a wolf killed a golden retriever in the city of Duluth. The dog's owner has been criticized for allowing the dog off leash. I can't wait to hear what the same people will say when it's somebody's child instead of somebody's dog.
Dog killed by wolf on trail in Duluth | KARE11.com
Dog killed in wolf attack at Brighton Beach | KBJR 6 & Range 11 | KDLH 3: News, Weather, Sports for Duluth MN / Superior WI / Northland | Local News

When I was a kid people would drive hundreds of miles to see a bald eagle. Now I see dozens of them every year. And having lost two of my chickens to them so far, I understand why they nearly became extinct.

A cougar is a fairly humane killer. There is nothing humane about a pack of wolves tearing an animal apart while it helplessly resists. Unfortunately, because of what I believe are misguided policies, some of you will get to see this for yourself.
bsms and boots like this.
Joel Reiter is offline  
post #30 of 37 Old 03-04-2016, 11:56 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: southern Arizona
Posts: 12,067
• Horses: 4
The lady who worked with Trooper and Mia and Lilly did a "mustang makeover". I think she had 2 months. She was unimpressed with the winner...said the horse did things, but was missing the basics and tense. She also didn't think her project was ready to turn over to a non-pro, so she kept the horse at her own expense for another couple of months. When he was ready to be a good trail horse for an average rider, he was 'adopted' out.

She likes mustangs. She thinks they show more independent thought and tend to require a rider who works with the horse rather than one who expects an ATV. But she also says they seem to run the full range in temperament.
horseluvr2524 likes this.

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
bsms is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mustang adoption and other implications - rant SEAmom Horse Talk 9 05-28-2014 06:56 PM
The Mustang Roll: The Cadaver Pic of the Arizona Mustang, Mustang Rolls Thread jkdawson8085 Hoof Care 1 11-04-2012 08:34 PM
Mustang Filly for the Extreme Supreme Mustang Makeover Challenge LovePandaPony Horse Conformation Critique 5 08-27-2012 11:57 AM
BLM Mustang adoption draftrider Horse Training 12 06-25-2010 07:24 PM
Mustang Adoption Questions Keeroni Horses for Sale 13 10-28-2009 09:29 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome