In need of desperate help! - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 51 Old 11-17-2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post
Wholeheartedly agree.

The earlier mentioned retired TB at our barn has a well known history for being a total goofball with some people (he likes to spaz coming in from turnout and walks sideways and backwards half the way) but is always a perfect gentleman for me oddly enough. But he'll pin on me when I give him his morning grain, but won't do it for others. In the crossties he's a big teddybear, but lead him to his stall and Mr. GrumpyPants comes back out in a split second.

The hotheaded TB mare can be a total witch with me sometimes headed out for turnout but is cooler with others. Sometimes is tempermental when you come in her stall, sometimes just wants to mooch a scritch behind the ears. And sometimes she's cool as a cucumber no matter what. The next time she'll pin and try to line you up if she's in a mood.

The one thing I've come to learn with TB's is exactly that - always be ready for the unexpected, and when you're on them, always ride ready.

As an intermediate rider a TB would be my last horse of choice, honestly, although I'm more of a pleasure rider than anything else - I respect those who desire the challenge of a TB so long as you've reached the experience level to be safe there, and have the time available to refine the skillset needed to make it all successful. Not everyone has both.
I didn't elaborate but at the first A show with the younger TB "wild child" who was only used to me, and the trainer, I had to go to the bathroom and asked someone very experienced (a fellow boarder at my barn who was at the show with her horse too) to hold him for a few minutes. I no sooner got halfway across the warm up arena and I hear someone yelling "loose horse", and I didn't even have to turn around to know it was mine. He didn't like me leaving him with her, even for a minute ,so he decided he wasn't staying.
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post #22 of 51 Old 11-17-2014, 11:33 PM
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My 1st horse was a 8 year old green appy, with me as a beginner rider. My trainer/riding instructor considered him advance green broke and thought he would be a good fit for me. I had him boarded there and took lessons on him. After I brought him home, I rode him for awhile then was injured on the job and he sat all winter.

In the spring when I saddled him to go for a ride, he was a different horse. I hadn't been on a horse very much in 5 months. The 1st ride I fell off him. After that, I was nervous about getting on him although I could do anything I wanted with him on the ground. Other people rode him with no problem. It was me more than the horse. He seemed reactive and spooky every time I rode him. I sent him back for a 30 day refresher. In less than a week, the trainer called and told me that Vegas remembered everything she had taught him, but she would put some more training on him since I was thinking about competing in some local shows in the spring. While taking lessons on another horse I got my confidence back and now I can get on Vegas with no problem. He was picking up on my nervousness and it made him nervous.

I have a 20 year old quarter horse/tb mix. He's a horse anyone can ride. I do all my practicing on this horse before I even try it on Vegas.

Try taking lessons on another horse to get your confidence back and let a more experienced rider ride your horse. This is what I did with Vegas and it helped me a lot.
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post #23 of 51 Old 11-18-2014, 07:26 AM
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You do not buy a horse, any horse, and have it stay just as it was when you purchased it. Every time you interact with that horse, it is looking at you as another her member. It is your job to stay above the horse on the proverbial 'pecking order'. It is his duty, as a high strung intelligent 'hot blood' to work his way up your pecking order. He is winning.

Thicker skinned, colder blooded, easier going, laid back horses worry about climbing that social ladder much less -- or not at all. Horses that are farther down the pecking order in a pasture full of horses also offer fewer challenges than horses that are dominant in a herd. It is just the way they are. They are 'hard wired' this way.

No doubt your horse is way too 'reactive' for you and needs a really strong leader to be comfortable. She is just as neurotic and scared as you are. She does not feel any more safe in your company than you do in hers. Not a great match and never will be.

Read this other thread. It pretty well tells you where you are . https://www.horseforum.com/horse-trai...ime-you-85012/ It is a 'sticky at the top of the 'training' section.

You could take this horse back to the stable she originally came from and see if they have a slower, easier going horse that they would trade her for. They could easily 'shape her back up' and give you lessons on the horse you need instead of the horse you fell in love with.

We put a lot of people on their first horses. We always stress that we want new riders and children 'under mounted' rather than 'over mounted'. We want them 'bored' with their horse until they are confident and ride well enough to 'need' a more talented and more energetic horse. We want new riders on a horse they have to ASK to move out faster and never put them on a horse they have to slow down or CONTROL. Keep this difference in mind when you try a horse out. Make sure you have to ASK it to move on out. It should be responsive and willing to move out, but you should not be in a position to have to control it.

Don't give up. Just hunt for the right kind of horse and work your way up. Good luck. Cherie

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post #24 of 51 Old 11-18-2014, 03:34 PM
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Can I get this straight first - She isn't a TB she's a TB X Connemara which a fairly common cross breeding in the UK to produce a competition pony or 'just a hack'
They can be high energy and I'm wondering if this pony was used in the riding school a lot before you had her?
I've seen lots of excellent riding school horses/ponies turn into monsters when they aren't getting the legs ridden off them all week
At 15 this pony is what she is - best suited to an experienced person who's used to this type of ride and unfortunately that isn't you
Speak to the sellers and ask them to take her back and find you something more suited to your needs.
If they're registered dealers then they are bound under the UK trade descriptions act - basically if they sold you a quiet easy to ride horse then it has to 'be what it says on the label'
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post #25 of 51 Old 11-18-2014, 04:10 PM
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OP, whenever somebody says something to the effect of "this horse has more potential than just a school pony", they nearly always mean that the horse is suited to competition! Riding such a horse requires knowledge, experience, timing, and CONFIDENCE.

Take my family's horses, 2 mares, like night and day. My mother's horse is a ranch bred and broke QH. Solid, quiet, sane, but still sensitive to cues, a wonderful ride and plenty of get up and go when asked for! She even challenges my mother and makes her a better rider, but they are very beginner safe challenges (the first one was turning in endless circles at a walk *I'm cracking up right now remembering* and forced my mother to figure out how to give clear direction and make her go forward. Another was trotting when asked to walk, so my mother had to learn how to relax her body to relax the horse). This horse does seem to adjust to her rider and their experience level.

My mare, on the other hand, is for experienced confident riders only. She is extremely athletic, talented, and smart, and I spent a few years going through the "valley low" doing the green+green thing and trying to figure out how to train her. They were a few years of unhappiness and even mental torture that I wouldn't wish on anyone. But it was so worth it, because now I have a horse so talented who understands me and I understand her and she trusts me because I am confident and so will go the distance for me and do what I ask of her. If she doesn't do what I ask, I know how to make her do so.

Now you put a beginner on this horse, or even someone with just the slightest confidence issue, she can feel it. She will start out ambling along, refusing to do anything faster than a western 'wog'. If the rider does happen to have the 'oomph' to make her move faster, but don't know how to handle her in other ways, she will start ducking out and bucking, maybe some rearing if they really make her mad. Then an experienced confident rider gets on, that attitude gets out FAST and she's back to being sweet, lovely, willing, forward. SUPER talented horse and a wonderful ride, but ONLY with the right rider!

Many times in this kind of situation I will encourage the owner to continue working with the horse with the help of a trainer. Usually, one can tell that the poster really loves this horse. In your case, I don't think you do, having dubbed her a "nutcase". The problem is that this is not a 'green+green' situation. You are WAY overhorsed, she just knows so much more than you. It is not too soon to sell her back to where she came or to a new home where she will be well taken care of and find yourself a horse that you will actually enjoy. It would be in her best interest too, before she has many vices that will have to be untrained, which will devalue her.

I hope I didn't sound harsh. In all honesty I think the only thing worse than green+green is being overhorsed. Then the horse has your number AND knows more than you. If you think about it, there is no way most top competition horses can be ridden by beginners. It is the horses that are 'a lot of horse' who can be the most difficult to handle, but who go the farthest with the right handler.

Definitely don't continue jumping her. Work on the flat, you don't want to create jumping vices.

"You can do something wrong for thirty years and call yourself experienced, you can do something right for a week and experience more than someone who spent thirty years doing the wrong thing." ~WhattaTroublemaker
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post #26 of 51 Old 11-18-2014, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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thank you for all the replies everyone.
I'm having a bhsi coming tomorrow to have a look at me on her and see what her opinion is.

I honestly do love her to bits... just nervous when getting on her...

i found out that her previous owner used to pull her out of jumps so maybe this is why she does it? along with me being nervous?

I'm thinking about a parelli instructor? i have her booked in for monday... what do you think?

Turns out she had a horse.. the second day of owning it she fell off broke her pelvis and a few ribs!

Now after using parellis methods she can ride her in a field bareback with just a head collar! that just amazes me!

i thought maybe i should give it 6 months? see where I'm at after all the lessons and parelli training then if it still hasn't worked out.. move on to something more beginner type?
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post #27 of 51 Old 11-18-2014, 06:48 PM
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What does your instructor say about her behavior and your confidence/riding skill level? It seems like he/she would be helping you with your horse. I relied on my instructor's advice about buying a horse, age, training,etc. A confidence builder. Kodah was 3 now 6 and has gone to school herself for 30 days, obstacle course, etc . The trainer said she was bomb proof. My hubby is the cowboy and he is the one who put the time in w/her since she came home from school. I do the ground work/conditioning, rode her in the round pen under his watchful eye, time consuming for him. When she tried to act out, (whipping her tail and stomping) he would help me correct her and get her back in line. Three years later and she is a dream. It takes patience and I can tell you love her. The other two horses we have are 11 yr. old Paint geldings, veru well-trained. Even then, I rode in the round pen and pasture on them as my confidence and lessons continued. A friend of mine had a TB who was retrained for ranching. Beans was the best cow savvy ranch horse. He could cover terrain like a 4-wheeler. I can't imagine being scared of my horses. I would follow the advice of the experience people here or your instructor.

Last edited by Boots4ACowGirl; 11-18-2014 at 06:54 PM. Reason: explanation
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post #28 of 51 Old 11-18-2014, 07:25 PM
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I do agree that you need help, but you already know that. My experience was a little different from what most people say here though.

I came from a similar situation as you - rode for many years and quite intensively as a kid and teenager, then stopped when I went to university and re-started about 10 years later. When I bought my horse I test rode him, felt good, his old owner thought we were a good match, bought him. He is a pretty sensitive horse, which is fun, but he is not very tolerant of not-so-good riding.
I bought him in May and by September I was at the point where you are right now. Some days I didn't even feel like going to the barn and taking him for a walk. The horse and I kept feeding off each other - I got nervous, he got spooky; I was an insecure leader, he didn't want to leave his equine herd where he felt safe etc.
In the first summer I came off several times to the point where I didn't feel like riding anymore. So I lunged him, but it didn't make our relationship any better - every time there was wind, a tractor drove by, a kitten jumped off a hay bale, it would be drama.
I ended up finding us a trainer. She rode him three times a week and I rode him three times a week (one lesson and two "homework" sessions). We resolved our problems and compete in dressage now (this was three years ago). I might have needed a bit more riding time after having a break from riding, but it turned out that I did ultimately have the riding ability and he did have the training for us to work it out. We just needed someone to guide us through a spot where we got stuck with each other. Depending on your personality, you can build confidence relatively easy, whereas for building and improving riding skills it takes years.

I definitely agree with the others that it's no good to go on when you're completely overhorsed until someone gets seriously hurt. There are too many examples of that, and it's neither good for the horse nor for the human. Of course, a complete beginner with a testy, nervous horse is not going to go well.

But (big BUT) you're also not completely overhorsed every time there are problems. To say "you're not a good match and never will be" is plain unfair. You don't throw away a relationship every time you hit a rough spot.

I'm not advocating to just "work it out" no matter what, but to make a thoughtful decision what to do next (of course keeping in mind that your horse CAN hurt you). So my advice would be to have someone experienced (preferably with horses and humans) assess your situation and see how far apart "the horse you can actually handle" and "the horse you have" really are. Some relationships are doomed, some need a ton of work, some just need the watchful eye of a good trainer. Nobody on an internet forum will be able to know what is happening between you and your horse and decide for you. But you seem thoughtful enough to be able to make the choice that is best for you two.
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post #29 of 51 Old 11-19-2014, 09:02 AM
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See what this instructor thinks of her and you - but I would imagine she's going to say that your level of expertise and confidence doesn't match what the pony needs from a rider
The Parelli thing - well I can't see how that's going to improve your riding and that's what's needed here
A lot of this pony's nervousness is coming from her picking up on your nerves and it doesn't matter how confident the Parelli stuff makes you on the ground you've still got to get on and ride
A good riding instructor would be money better spent if you insist on carrying on
In 6 months time that pony will either be better or be much worse - and by then any hope of you getting the seller to take her back or you selling her on yourself is getting closer to zero
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post #30 of 51 Old 11-19-2014, 10:20 AM
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If you are falling off nearly every ride then you are over mounted and need a less capable and less excitable horse that is what we refer to here as a "baby sitter."

Falling off nearly every ride will get you hurt at some point. Surely that is no fun.

You need less horse and more riding lessons! And that is OK!!
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