Need instructions how to put pelham bit on bridle with snaffle and one set of reins - Page 8 - The Horse Forum
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post #71 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 02:42 AM
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Sometimes bandaids are needed.

A child who is trying and cannot succeed will start to think they cannot do it - especially if someone else can. Trying something different in the hopes that it will assist can often be the answer.

If the Pelham does help then it is easy to switch back to a snaffle with the rider knowing that they can do whatever.

I bought a 12.2 pony for peanuts because he was a nut case. He had three paces, reverse, refuse to move or flat out. I had a very good little rider who did very well with him. Control on the flat was achieved but when it came to jumping his idea was flat out. I put him in a Pelham with couplings, made not a lot of difference. In the end he was in a Weymouth with long shanks. One rein (or pair of reins) the girl could hold him. This was used solely for competition jumping, then for indoor competitions he went back to the Pelham and by the end of the second season he was in a snaffle.

The girl knew she had control, the pony knew he was controllable, and together they won a terrific amount, including many 14.2 classes,

The girl did not abuse the bit and it gave her the confidence to know she was in control.

Last edited by Foxhunter; 11-08-2014 at 03:13 PM.
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post #72 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
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Yogiwick, I couldn't tell from your last post if you were being facetious or not. But trust me, I would never be abusive towards a horse I own or control and neither would my trainer(s).

I sent this horse out for 6 weeks of training (professional trainer, well-regarded) after I bought her to get her soft and responsive after a year of no work, and now I pay a trainer to work with her about 3x a week to continue that work. The horse gets one day off a week.

My daughter uses the horse in lessons under the supervision of a 3rd trainer/instructor (who happens to be the BO and diplomaed in horse training and riding/teaching).

I never do anything without expert advice, from people actually watching the horse and my daughter in person. The choice to try this bit was a recommendation for a specific issue, which incidentally is why many people change bits to see "what works", so I cannot imagine why someone would call it abusive. ??? Or maybe you were just joking. It's hard to tell sometimes online.
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post #73 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 06:44 AM
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When working in racing with steeplechasers, some were hard to hold. A lot of their canter(slow gallop) was a fight to hold them.

I found I could hold the strong ones just by swinging them off balance every other stride. Not a good thing but the only way with the really strong ones. It took strength, determination and balance. Certainly it was slightly better than sawing at their mouths. Odd thing was that once they knew you could hold them they settled and would work settled and calmly.

None of these horses ended up with hard mouths when they finished race training.
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post #74 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogiwick View Post


The issue is NOT the curb pressure. The issue is that we are assuming this horse is being ridden in contact and you do not ride a horse in contact with a curb, there is no release
I guess that is also a debating point, since we are talking about a pelham, English style I would tend to assume the horse ie being ridden English style, and would expect it to be ridden in contact.

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Sometimes bandaids are needed.
I may just steal this as a signature line at some time.

Yes we all strive for perfectly trained, well behaved horses in every situation and with every rider, but that is just not going to happen over night. Sometimes you stick a bandaid on to get you through, doesn't mean you will always need it.
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post #75 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by faye View Post
Sorry but need to correct this. You will find that the vast majority of ponys in the Uk are shown in Pelhams with either double reins or split reins for the open 12.2hh classes.
It only tends to be hunters and hacks who wear doubles! Both double or Pelham is correct in the show ring.
A lot of cobs are shown in Sam marsh or Swales Pelhams which are actually driving bits but look like Pelhams
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Faye - I've had nothing to do with showing ponies for a long time so only speaking from my own experience of a time when a double bridle was considered the 'must have' on show ponies.
I do still get the H&H every week and the top ponies shown in there also still seem to be in doubles though so I assumed nothing had changed.
I didn't say the Pelham was incorrect in the show rung- but 'in my day' it wasn't the norm.
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post #76 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 01:03 PM
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You can actually ride a curb in light contact. Gaited riders do it all the time. I do it all the time. Not constantly. I walk on a loose rein, canter on a loose rein, but when "gaiting" I use light contact on a curb bit.

So yeah, I know we are talking about totally different things, BUT as a western rider, that pelham with converters looks pretty mild.

It does take away the double-bridle function of the bit. You are basically taking away the snaffle + curb effect with 2 sets of reins and converting it to a very mild curb with less leverage than if you were using just the curb ring on the pelham. But as long as you know you are just converting it to a mild curb bit, I don't see a big issue. Especially with a child that may not have total control of the horse. I would rather the child feel completely in control.

I also wholeheartedly agree with BSMS post about curb bits and being in control. I ride my greenie in a curb after being bolted with and bucked off in a snaffle. Now I happily ride him in a dog-bone curb and it gives me confidence that if he ever spooked that bad again I could stop him. Maybe that makes me a poor rider, but it makes me a confident one that enjoys riding my horse. And that is important to me.

The way I look at it, I would rather ride him in a curb with confidence than have to re-home him because I am afraid to ride him in a snaffle because he could bolt and take off. I think that's a small price for the horse to pay for job security in a loving home.

Plus, I would rather ride lightly in a curb than have to pull on a horse in a snaffle. Again, maybe it speaks poorly of me, but in a snaffle it just seems like you have to pull on a horse a lot more to get things accomplished. Stopping is harder, turning is harder, keeping the horse from snatching grass is harder. With a curb you can be feather-light. I would rather ride in a stronger bit then teach him he can ignore my hands or bolt through them.
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post #77 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ecasey View Post
Yogiwick, I couldn't tell from your last post if you were being facetious or not. But trust me, I would never be abusive towards a horse I own or control and neither would my trainer(s).

I sent this horse out for 6 weeks of training (professional trainer, well-regarded) after I bought her to get her soft and responsive after a year of no work, and now I pay a trainer to work with her about 3x a week to continue that work. The horse gets one day off a week.

My daughter uses the horse in lessons under the supervision of a 3rd trainer/instructor (who happens to be the BO and diplomaed in horse training and riding/teaching).

I never do anything without expert advice, from people actually watching the horse and my daughter in person. The choice to try this bit was a recommendation for a specific issue, which incidentally is why many people change bits to see "what works", so I cannot imagine why someone would call it abusive. ??? Or maybe you were just joking. It's hard to tell sometimes online.
I was definitely joking!! Sorry I felt that was obvious due to the sentence quoted being so obviously NOT those things and the rest of the post and previous posts.

Internet is hard sometimes :/. So's texting lol!

I felt some sarcasm (aka thing that is often impossible to tell in writing) was in order due to the.. "other posts" you were receiving :/

I have complete faith in you/your trainer :)
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post #78 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
I guess that is also a debating point, since we are talking about a pelham, English style I would tend to assume the horse ie being ridden English style, and would expect it to be ridden in contact.



I may just steal this as a signature line at some time.

Yes we all strive for perfectly trained, well behaved horses in every situation and with every rider, but that is just not going to happen over night. Sometimes you stick a bandaid on to get you through, doesn't mean you will always need it.
Contact is an assumption and contact is also something hard to describe. I ride with very light hands and often no contact as do many people I know. My mother rides the same. She went out to Wyoming and was riding Western and due to having all levels of riders they were very very (good!) strict on exactly how they wanted their horses ridden. Horses were well trained and responsive and ridden with a very large loop in the reins ("on the buckle" practically if you are an English rider). My mother already had soft hands no contact and a nice loop but they kept on reminding her to let the reins out by about a foot lol. So no, English does not equal contact and contact is relative. By contact here I am thinking "on the bit" or at least a decent amount of contact in which case I agree a curb type bit is not appropriate.

I ride my own horse is a Pelham, 2 or 1 (not with a converter though, just modifying the bit to suit my own needs) or a Kimberwick. Don't love it but I will ride him in *light* contact with a mild bit that has curb pressure. I would not recommend this to anyone else and will never ride with constant heavy contact in a curb bit. But the little I do, esp since most of the riding is VERY light contact or none at all, works well for both of us.

Hmm..when phrased like that I completely agree. Guess I have a different definition of "bandaid" (though I guess that fits the "original" definition better!! lol). When I think bandaid as far as training goes I think something done INSTEAD of training the horse not TO train the horse. So moving up a bit in order to move back down can be a good thing and I agree with that. Guess I had a different definition of that word :)
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post #79 of 129 Old 11-08-2014, 08:15 PM
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OP do you mind me asking how old your daughter is?

I'm picturing a young adult while I feel a lot of people are picturing a child (say <15, as that has different definitions lol).
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post #80 of 129 Old 11-09-2014, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
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Yogiwick, my daughter is 11. But before everyone freaks out and says she's too young to be good or coordinated or mature, let me say that she is not like most 11 year olds out there. I know every parent thinks their kid is amazing, so I'm not going to regale you with my opinions ... I'll just share the facts.

She's now in lessons with kids who are around 12-15 years old, all of whom have been riding for at least 4 years. She's better than most of them (more coordinated, can do the jumps without faltering, can control her club horse, seated work with and without stirrups at all gaits), probably by virtue of the fact that she's had a ton of private lessons, and having her own horse means she can ride outside of just lesson days. She's had more hours in the saddle than any kid at the barn and that includes kids who've been taking lessons for years.

She rides usually 6 days a week. Sometimes 5. Everyone who's been around horses and riding for a long time who watches her says she's a natural. Her riding looks effortless.

She volunteered at the barn all summer assisting with summer riding camps (tacking and untacking horses, translating the lessons from French to English for the non-francophones, guiding younger kids' horses around the ring during trotting exercises, feeding the horses, cleaning, administering wormer, etc.) without adults present much of the time. The BO and other trainer trust her with anything there because she's proven capable and mature enough to handle the responsibility.

She's helped the veterinarian with an exam of a lame horse (flexion tests, xrays, etc.) when the BO was busy in lessons.

She has been helping with the training of this horse we bought several months ago by using the horse in lessons and riding her in our free time. The horse has come a long way and my daughter is really good at it. She's patient, persistent, fair, and kind. She was thrown last year by a different horse, so she has a healthy respect for a horse's power, but she doesn't let that stop her from advancing. She doesn't take any crap either, so the horse respects her.

So while my daughter is only 11, I would say she acts more like a 15 year old. She's also about the size of a 15 year old, the tallest kid in her class and very muscular (due to all the riding she does!).
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