New Issue: Gelding Panics When Tied - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 07:03 PM
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Try a blocker tie ring & a long rope (the right kind of rope). Much safer than hard tying & if you do it as instructed I think you'll get better & safer results.

The farrier probably will be glad you're holding him.
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post #12 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 10:50 PM
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I'm a believer in the blocker toe ring. I use one in my trailer. In my stall. And have one in my saddle bag. Yes, Chance will tie normally but for training, I like desensitizing with the extra play in the line. They get a little bit of relief and don't feel so claustrophobic.


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post #13 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 11:06 PM
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Honestly, I'm not for the whipping him across the butt or anything, maybe a few hard slaps on the rump. I would teach him to respond to pressure, but in the meantime you can tie him in between two trees, so it's kinda like cross ties, and basically forget about him for a couple hours. Also, if he ever pulls back while being tied normally you can tie him up a special way so that you just pull on the end of the rope and it unties immediately, but the horse can't pull back and untie it. But, beware, a smart horse will learn how to pull that rope and untie himself.
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post #14 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 11:13 PM
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I'm also not sensing genuine panic, or at least none not created by the horse himself.

The trick with Arabs is you need to outsmart them. They will play games (same with the spookiness I'm guessing).

I like the approach your fellow boarder took. I would also be very no nonsense about it. Don't make a fuss, and that means with either positive or negative attention.

(As always Foxhunter has the best stories!)
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post #15 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 11:15 PM
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The horse has learned to halter pull, and rewards himself by getting free.
As you found out, it takes a horse like this, less and less of an excuse to set back.
You bet I tie such a horse, and with a body rope. It is a vise I won't accept, and I will go for the 'cure'
NEVER use cross ties on a horse that is not 100% on accepting to be tied solid
At his age, I'm gonna assume he is not a horse never taught how to give to pressure, but rather a horse that has learned he can resist
Yes, ona young horse, that is still learning how to give to pressure, I will make sure they are very good at giving to pressure, before I ever tie them solid, but that does not apply to a spoiled horse that has learned he can halter pull and break free
As you noticed, it is taking less to have him find a reason to halter pull. He has learned to use it to his advantage
He would get a lesson with the body rope, were he my horse, but I don't recommend you use it, if not experienced, but get help in using and setting it up correctly
We try to train horses so that we can be as gentle as possible with then, through physicological conditioning, having them convinced that a simple lead shank and halter can control them. Once they call our 'bluff', learn they can pull away when led, or halter pull when tied, you have to use whatever it takes, so when they try that vise, they are unsuccessful and it has some negative consequences, making it the 'wrong thing hard'
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post #16 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 11:21 PM
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No, it certainly does not sound he is setting back out of true panic. First time, he ever halter pulled (could have been at his old home ) it could have had a true fear bases, but horses learn, each and every time we handle them, for the good or the bad.
This horse has simply learned that he can set back and break free. This is very typical behavior of a confirmed halter puller. I bought one, off the track. She would set back each time you tied her, and if that halter held, she would then stand.
I used the body rope and cured her of the habit
I'm not a fan of the blocker tie ring, as I want my horses to stand tied-period. We trail ride, with our horses tied up over night. I tie horses tot he trailer, at one day shows, and there is no way I am about to pack a Blocker tie ring around, nor teach my horse that he can escape from just standing tied-period!
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post #17 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
No, it certainly does not sound he is setting back out of true panic. First time, he ever halter pulled (could have been at his old home ) it could have had a true fear bases, but horses learn, each and every time we handle them, for the good or the bad.
This horse has simply learned that he can set back and break free. This is very typical behavior of a confirmed halter puller. I bought one, off the track. She would set back each time you tied her, and if that halter held, she would then stand.
I used the body rope and cured her of the habit
I'm not a fan of the blocker tie ring, as I want my horses to stand tied-period. We trail ride, with our horses tied up over night. I tie horses tot he trailer, at one day shows, and there is no way I am about to pack a Blocker tie ring around, nor teach my horse that he can escape from just standing tied-period!
Not only is that potentially very dangerous but it's just flat out ANNOYING too!!
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post #18 of 63 Old 01-04-2016, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Yogiwick View Post
Not only is that potentially very dangerous but it's just flat out ANNOYING too!!
This is how I feel about breakaway halters too. I had a mare that tied beautifully, for years- I thought it'd be a good idea to buy a breakaway halter, you know, in case something happened.

Well she got her leg over the lead one day (she yields to pressure beautifully) and slowly pulled back, and it snapped. It looked like a lightbulb went off as she walked away free. After that she pulled every time tied. It was SO annoying. I got her out of it with a solid halter and a good rope.
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post #19 of 63 Old 01-05-2016, 12:07 AM
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My comment about the blocker tie ring was for training /desensitizing. Yes, I've carted one around for a goofy little mare I had, but then I've also never seen a horse get loose off one tied firmly. The quick, quick release of it is the redeeming quality in my mind.


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post #20 of 63 Old 01-05-2016, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the feedback! It seems the majority is in concurrence with my instructor, but the advice to also teach him to give to pressure is something that I've been working with him on and also agree with as a general rule. When he first arrived he wouldn't really give you his head when haltering, luckily now he practically places his nose in the halter. I have a feeling if he gave to pressure better he'd be much easier to bridle. I'm guessing the butt prodding works similarly to when a horse nips with a firm smack?

I forgot a potentially important detail. The week before he came down to me, he apparently tossed his head in a stall that had a low hanging ceiling (ugh) and he smacked the top of his head pretty hard. Maybe it knocked some sense out of him. ;) But the reason I mention this, is he is with me he is pasture boarded with a large 3-sided run-in (all stalls are currently spoken for) but every time we go into the barn, he gets extremely alert and tense. Cranes his neck forward and starts breathing really hard. I'm not sure if this is him being excitable or if he's nervous about the barn itself. It's usually kind of dark in there so once the sun isn't as strong I try to turn on the lights as we walk in so he maybe can see better. I don't know. Usually seconds before he acts up he tenses up. But the barn in general makes him uneasy so being tied in there probably adds to that. I'm not making excuses for him being a brat, I mean honestly it annoys the daylights out of me that he flips out when tied so I'm willing to explore all suggested options.

Just as I finished writing this post, the man that suggested I tree tie him said he wants to meet tomorrow if it's not too windy and we can start working with him. Having a more experienced person there with me will make me feel a lot better about doing the tree deal. I know my instructor has been meaning to do it, but it had been raining so badly that the ground was saturated. I'm also curious if he's also going to suggest pressure training.

Oh and for the record, the breakaway halter is sitting in the trunk of my car as an emergency halter, I got him a nice solid nylon halter that I use (he does not wear a halter when in pasture). Another boarder's horse who is new to the barn gets anxious in the barn as well, and he's had extensive training. He broke 3, yes 3 nylon halters in the past month. They don't tie him either anymore. I have a feeling they'll be joining us in tree tying lol.
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