New Issue: Gelding Panics When Tied - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
 67Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 63 Old 01-07-2016, 10:45 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,893
• Horses: 0
Your gelding sounds a lot like my husbands mare. We purchased her from an older gentleman who got into riding late in life. He was injured (on another horse) and got out of horses. We had her about a month and she pulled back for for reason. We were grooming all of our horses and I popped her in the bottom with a lead rope and she jumped forward again. The pulling back did not happen again for some time but this time she broke the wooden fence post she was tied too. After that she pulled back each time. Eventually something gave and she became really headshy. We had a chiro out (at vets suggestion) who adjusted her poll. We them moved onto using "The Clip" which we have now started using with all of our horses. The clip functions much like the Blocker Tie ring - she had bridling issues as well and we started giving her a treat before we introduced the bit. She knows now that a treat and the bridle go hand in hand. Some may not like that approach but it was easier for hubby to get the bit into her mouth when she was chewing and made bitting a lot easier on both of them. She now pushes her head toward the bit. She still pulls back occasionally and for seemingly no reason at all - but we can deal with it. Good Luck!
carshon is offline  
post #42 of 63 Old 01-07-2016, 10:47 AM
Foal
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 57
• Horses: 0
My mare hates to be tied up when I'm bathing her, I have came to the conclusion it's because she wants the other ponys, I had the all up at the house before and she stood great with her friend.
Peachy is offline  
post #43 of 63 Old 01-07-2016, 12:14 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 1,063
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by natisha View Post
Instead of having him spit the bit out, you open his mouth & lower the bit using the top of the headstall. Reverse that for bridling.
How did he ride not lunging first compared to lunging?
This where I created a bridling problem for myself. I dropped the bit too fast, before her mouth was open, and it hit her teeth, then she would not open her mouth. As soon as I started holding the bit in place after taking the bridle over the ears and letting her open her mouth before lowering, bridling difficulty stopped.
Whinnie is offline  
post #44 of 63 Old 01-07-2016, 10:21 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,295
• Horses: 0
"horse pulling back when tied" is a very general statement and there are many ways of correcting it that I feel could work well, except that I don't condone the pitch fork method, I once used a bamboo rake in a similar fashion however with good results.

"Horse that PANICS and pulls back" is a little different IMO, as it could be the tying that cause the panic, what you are dong while the horse is tied, or a combination of both. I have worked with a few that couldn't be tied at all initially and simply avoided tying them until they were used to me grooming, trimming feet, and tacking up. You certainly can teach your horse to stand still while working on him without tying him. That is where I would start even if it meant having to work in a stall. What I am seeing in this situation is something making this horse nervous and then the fact that he can't get away causing the panic. This is also a new horse and depending on his temperament, it can take awhile before he is really comfortable with a new owner
Werecat likes this.
Textan49 is offline  
post #45 of 63 Old 01-07-2016, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 697
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Textan49 View Post
I have worked with a few that couldn't be tied at all initially and simply avoided tying them until they were used to me grooming, trimming feet, and tacking up. You certainly can teach your horse to stand still while working on him without tying him.
This is actually how I've been handling it and I think he's doing okay so far. I got him from the pasture today and put his lead rope through a tie ring, but didn't make a knot. He was antsy but didn't toss his head or spook or anything like that. When I brush him he stands still, once I stop he gets impatient so I make him stand there until he settles then reward him. I also gave him a little bit of grain and hay just to sweeten the pot when he was calm and associate the barn with happy things. I also worked on moving his hind end and he was responsive.

After he was groomed, I worked him in the round pen. I started using a dressage whip during lunging vs. a lunge whip since I'm really short and it's easier for me to get him to understand what I want. He did great. I rubbed it all over him, right side made him uneasy but continued until he settled. I started to rub it all over his face. He'd toss his head up the closer it got down his nose, exactly like how he handles the bit. I'd make him move when he did this, and continued on. My last 2 attempts for the evening, he got the picture and didn't toss his head when the whip came down his nose.

After the round pen, I took him into the barn and placed the lead rope through the tie ring, and again didn't tie it. He. stood. beautifully. He didn't move, AT ALL. Not a single foot except his back foot to rest his weight. He even relaxed! I let him stay like that for 10 or so minutes (several songs on the radio, I should've actually timed it) until I praised him and took him outside to do some hand grazing as it was getting dark. I am going to try my best to keep consistent with this. I feel like today we may have scratched the surface of progress.


A side note: usually I we try to lower the bridle down from the band so it doesn't clack his teeth but he usually tosses his head before we get any further.

I got some freaky news from his previous owner... she said she doesn't think his teeth have EVER been floated. WHAT!? Okay. That was a bit of a surprise considering she used to take immaculate care of her horses. Apparently he's always had good teeth and feet, but still! So needless to say I am moving forward and finding a reputable equine dentist ASAP. Ugh.
Textan49 and Whinnie like this.
Werecat is offline  
post #46 of 63 Old 01-08-2016, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 697
• Horses: 1
New Issue: Gelding Panics When Tied

I will point out, he has no symptoms of pain. He chews very nicely. No drool, no hesitation when eating, he grazes heartily and doesn't get lumps in his throat or pack food in his cheeks. Also once the bit is actually in his mouth he doesn't toss his head, Doesn't chomp on it, act out, etc. he's fine in that regard. I feel it's mostly a head shy thing, and after doing a bit of research it rested my mind a little.

I will still have his teeth checked and floated if needed though, but I'm not in as big of a panic as when I first found out that piece of information. The woman who owned him the majority of his life was a responsible owner and always kept her horses in good health. His entire life to this point he hasn't had any real health concerns or issues and I guess I'd like to as realistically as possible keep it like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our little adventure!: The Chronicles of Bear & Were

Last edited by Werecat; 01-08-2016 at 10:31 AM.
Werecat is offline  
post #47 of 63 Old 01-08-2016, 11:10 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 1,063
• Horses: 0
My whole horse life until 1997, teeth floating wasn't done unless the horse had a problem. I had horses that were in their 20's who never had their teeth floated and they were fine. I know that present standards dictate annual floating but I always wonder about it wearing the horse's teeth down at a faster rate than nature intended. I only had two horses that needed it annually, one because he had a tooth pulled because of an abscess and another because she would develop sharp edges.
JCnGrace, Werecat and KLJcowgirl like this.
Whinnie is offline  
post #48 of 63 Old 01-08-2016, 11:47 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,295
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werecat View Post
This is actually how I've been handling it and I think he's doing okay so far. I got him from the pasture today and put his lead rope through a tie ring, but didn't make a knot. He was antsy but didn't toss his head or spook or anything like that. When I brush him he stands still, once I stop he gets impatient so I make him stand there until he settles then reward him. I also gave him a little bit of grain and hay just to sweeten the pot when he was calm and associate the barn with happy things. I also worked on moving his hind end and he was responsive.

After he was groomed, I worked him in the round pen. I started using a dressage whip during lunging vs. a lunge whip since I'm really short and it's easier for me to get him to understand what I want. He did great. I rubbed it all over him, right side made him uneasy but continued until he settled. I started to rub it all over his face. He'd toss his head up the closer it got down his nose, exactly like how he handles the bit. I'd make him move when he did this, and continued on. My last 2 attempts for the evening, he got the picture and didn't toss his head when the whip came down his nose.

After the round pen, I took him into the barn and placed the lead rope through the tie ring, and again didn't tie it. He. stood. beautifully. He didn't move, AT ALL. Not a single foot except his back foot to rest his weight. He even relaxed! I let him stay like that for 10 or so minutes (several songs on the radio, I should've actually timed it) until I praised him and took him outside to do some hand grazing as it was getting dark. I am going to try my best to keep consistent with this. I feel like today we may have scratched the surface of progress.


A side note: usually I we try to lower the bridle down from the band so it doesn't clack his teeth but he usually tosses his head before we get any further.

I got some freaky news from his previous owner... she said she doesn't think his teeth have EVER been floated. WHAT!? Okay. That was a bit of a surprise considering she used to take immaculate care of her horses. Apparently he's always had good teeth and feet, but still! So needless to say I am moving forward and finding a reputable equine dentist ASAP. Ugh.
Good to hear that it is working for you. It is a little inconvenient since you can't walk away and leave your horse untied, but you still can get a lot done with him. Sometimes the best progress is made slowly
Whinnie and Werecat like this.
Textan49 is offline  
post #49 of 63 Old 01-08-2016, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 697
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whinnie View Post
My whole horse life until 1997, teeth floating wasn't done unless the horse had a problem. I had horses that were in their 20's who never had their teeth floated and they were fine. I know that present standards dictate annual floating but I always wonder about it wearing the horse's teeth down at a faster rate than nature intended. I only had two horses that needed it annually, one because he had a tooth pulled because of an abscess and another because she would develop sharp edges.

Yeah, she was of the same mindset and unless horses actually needed it, she didn't do it. In his case while he was with her, he didn't need it.

I've read several articles on this exact topic. That grazing is what helps keep the teeth level, etc. A lot of horses eat from nets or are stall kept so aren't able to graze as much as their ancestors or fully green pasture kept horses. Even in the most dead of winter here, we still have grazing grass, though we do feed hay during these months, but they're constantly up in the back pasture munching away.

My instructor only floats her horses' when needed, and so far it's been 4 years since any of her herd needed it. They're also mostly pasture kept though stalled during very cold or harsh weather.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Textan49 View Post
Good to hear that it is working for you. It is a little inconvenient since you can't walk away and leave your horse untied, but you still can get a lot done with him. Sometimes the best progress is made slowly

Yes, so far the only inconvenient thing is not trusting him to be there if I have to walk away lol. I kept going in and out of the tack room to change brushes, etc. while i was grooming him, but didn't leave him for more than 15-20 seconds at a time lol.

I don't mind doing this especially at a slow pace, especially if he makes good progress. My instructor is planning a trail ride for us all to go on one of these days as a group, and I'd like him to be able to tie nicely before then haha.

Farrier comes Wednesday morning to do a coupe of my instructor's horses and then my boy. Usually have a good workout he's quite calm, so hoping it'll go smoothly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our little adventure!: The Chronicles of Bear & Were
Werecat is offline  
post #50 of 63 Old 01-08-2016, 09:42 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottatrot View Post
I've seen too many horses injured from hard tying. It cures the pulling back problem, but how do you know the horse won't have permanent damage to his neck, facial nerves, etc? There's also a risk of disfiguring the horse's face, even if you don't cause chronic pain. One of my mares had her nasal bone damaged by someone hard tying her, and now it is deformed and she has a white scar on her nose. I was told they regretted trying it because they had to call the vet...she injured her hind leg too.
You can see the divot in this pic, just above the power line in the photo:

I've never seen her pull back in 6 years, but I started tying her with a tie blocker ring and then began tying her with a regular lead line and safety knot when I knew she was safe.

I don't believe horses should be left alone when tied because they can't get away if something truly bad happens. My preference is also the tie blocker ring. Just use it for awhile, and then the horse will get over his claustrophobia about being trapped while tied, and stop pulling back. Soon you can tie regularly again. It shouldn't matter if the horse ever should get out of the tie blocker, because hopefully you don't leave him unattended in an unsafe place. I know people do, but it is not an ideal practice.

The horse has a reason that is logical to himself and doesn't have to do with game playing or other ideas humans come up with to explain horse behavior that is actually anthropomorphizing. If a horse pulls back because he knows he can get away, you just have to block the behavior safely until he gets over the habit. Make the tie blocker have a little more resistance. He's just choosing food/friends/rest over standing somewhere and either getting ridden, hungry or bored.
That is why you don't just tie by the neck, with a halter puller!
It is also why you make sure the horse understands how to give to pressure first, and that is easy to tell, just by leading and handling a horse.
I have never raised a halter puller, but I have cured a few that I bought that way, and prevented a horses from ever starting to halter pull, by using that body rope, first indication that they wanted to set back.
In fact, the body rope is illustrated in a veterinary book on raising horses, and I have used it on yeanlings, when I first taught them to stand tied
Used correctly, it is very safe and effective, and prevents all the strain from being on those neck muscles, should the horse st back, plus they sure as heck learn to come forward, and few will ever test that rope again
You can also tell if a horse is truly panicking, or is just using any excuse to set back, having learned to halter pull and get free
I find a horse that you can't tie, pretty useless
I know people that can't leave horse tied to a trailer at a show, but have to load and un load that horse, where no stalls are available, if they are showing his buddy, ect.
People that 'pretend, to tie the horse, just wrapping that lead shank around a rail, afraid to even go and sit a few feet away and eat lunch on a trail ride, holding that horse who won't tie
Smilie is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Issue with gelding and seperation from mares jenwilson Horse Health 10 08-18-2012 11:08 PM
*Panics* Moving? KissTheRing General Off Topic Discussion 6 06-25-2012 12:04 PM
gelding with attitude issue after gelding Bandy Horse Training 9 05-06-2012 05:45 AM
Standing tied issue. Ladybug2001 Horse Training 54 04-25-2011 09:42 PM
Another issue with my gelding: Mounting creepalurkin Horse Training 9 10-09-2008 11:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome