Pain or attitude? No access to equine vets - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 28 Old 11-09-2017, 11:46 AM
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Ok, great,thank you. I'm sorry about your pain issues and the unfortunate side effects of medication.
Thanks, but they are history now, since knee replacements, as I no longer need any pain meds.
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post #22 of 28 Old 11-09-2017, 12:36 PM
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Yes, I had two out, they both said she is perfectly healthy. Neither of them thought they would be able to see anything from x-rays because they didn't know what to look for. I guess you have to know which angles to aim for if you suspect something... They both palpated her and there was no reaction and I never had any either.

As for blood tests, they said something to the effect of not being sure that cow or sheep tests they had would be appropriate and they didn't really know which horse tests to order because there are no specific symptoms they could observe :/ All in all, it didn't really seem like they were too enthusiastic to take my money for something they weren't sure they were able to perform - which I'm grateful for.

I asked around and all vets are basically like this around here. They treat horses for common mammalian ailments but anything horse-specific is beyond their expertise. I've seen this with other horses at the yard as well. If an antibiotic or a steroid can't fix it, there is not much more they can try.

Thank you for you time.

Gonna be honest- that doesn't read as if the vets didn't know but rather as in there is nothing to test for because they can't find anything wrong. Is there a point of say xraying her knee if her knee appears normal in all aspects? I can see a horse specialist telling you the exact same thing.

Also, I suspect you may be a worrying horse parent. Correct me if I'm wrong :). But nothing you said sounds like anything pain related. The saddle- sure, but then you say she falls asleep half the time, so cross that off. Everything else is 100% a test and nothing else, for example being gate sour.... so she only hurts when she's not having fun and happens to be near the gate? These are all VERY common problem and not something that makes me think pain, AT ALL. Quite the opposite, she's simply doing what she can do. She's a smart horse. Keep after the small stuff because she keeps on learning new tricks. As you've said....does that really sound like pain?
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post #23 of 28 Old 11-09-2017, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Gonna be honest- that doesn't read as if the vets didn't know but rather as in there is nothing to test for because they can't find anything wrong. Is there a point of say xraying her knee if her knee appears normal in all aspects? I can see a horse specialist telling you the exact same thing.

Also, I suspect you may be a worrying horse parent. Correct me if I'm wrong :). But nothing you said sounds like anything pain related. The saddle- sure, but then you say she falls asleep half the time, so cross that off. Everything else is 100% a test and nothing else, for example being gate sour.... so she only hurts when she's not having fun and happens to be near the gate? These are all VERY common problem and not something that makes me think pain, AT ALL. Quite the opposite, she's simply doing what she can do. She's a smart horse. Keep after the small stuff because she keeps on learning new tricks. As you've said....does that really sound like pain?
I agree. She seems to be too smart for me :/ She has an entire spectrum of antics, I keep fixing them and she keeps coming up with new ones. Things like snatching legs out of my hand, not standing nicely in cross ties, bolting for the stable when being led... Every single naughty thing you can think of she picks up for a week or two, I fix it and she starts up with a new one. Maybe I am being too gentle with her, I don't really shout or hit her because she hugely overreacts. Except when she showed her teeth - that lesson she only needed to be thought once.

I think you are right, when there is something exciting happening she goes really, really nicely - light of the leg, easy to steer, no gate sourness. She seems to like jumping and when she figures out we're jumping it's a different horse. I can get her going like that in flat work as well but it's always a battle and hard work.

This pain thing has been nagging me though, and I would like to put it out of my mind so that I can get after her with a clear conscience. Not that I don't already but there is always a little voice in my head telling me that I might be torturing this poor horse. I think she has my number :)

Again, she's never dangerous or completely disrespectful, she seems to know how to skirt my boundaries. Smart thing. Or I defend my innate boundaries without thinking and not so much the other things:)
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post #24 of 28 Old 11-09-2017, 02:57 PM
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You don't need to shout or hit her, but you do need to create fair but firm leadership
She is constantly trying you, because she can,and not because she is super smart, although a smart horse is more likely to pick up when rules are not consistent
Bolting when led, and I don't care where to, pulling feet away, being gate sour, are all examples of lack of respect on her part, far as your leadership.
It would be easier to find some magic pain pill, and fix her,but unfortunately, you also have to realize, that the pain you imagine, might just be between her ears.
While it is a desire by many to believe, that if a horse has no pain issue, then that horse will work for you 100% with honesty, and this myth is perpetuated by Hollywood horse movies
While I am certainly not dis counting a horse working for you because of a bond,
a desire to please, it is also a fact that a horse likes to please someone he both respects and trusts, and one who appears as a leader he can rely on.
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post #25 of 28 Old 11-09-2017, 03:07 PM
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Does her behavior change, when she is in heat?
As Jaydee mentioned, mares can have colic like symptoms just before they ovulate, and that lasts only about an hour or so, or, if they have an ovarian cyst or even a granuloma tumor, that can affect behavior, with the latter secreting abnormal hormones that can make a mare act aggressive
You can rule these possibilities out, even seeing if behavior i s hormone related, depending on time of month, but in the end, a horse that bolts when led and displays some of the other things you mentioned, needs more consistent handling and riding
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post #26 of 28 Old 11-09-2017, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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You don't need to shout or hit her, but you do need to create fair but firm leadership
She is constantly trying you, because she can,and not because she is super smart, although a smart horse is more likely to pick up when rules are not consistent
Bolting when led, and I don't care where to, pulling feet away, being gate sour, are all examples of lack of respect on her part, far as your leadership.
It would be easier to find some magic pain pill, and fix her,but unfortunately, you also have to realize, that the pain you imagine, might just be between her ears.
While it is a desire by many to believe, that if a horse has no pain issue, then that horse will work for you 100% with honesty, and this myth is perpetuated by Hollywood horse movies
While I am certainly not dis counting a horse working for you because of a bond,
a desire to please, it is also a fact that a horse likes to please someone he both respects and trusts, and one who appears as a leader he can rely on.
The thing is I fixed all of these issues (and many more) as soon as they popped up. I do a lot of ground and liberty work and she works great for me in those. But she keeps coming up with new tricks. And not just for me, experienced people also get tested on a regular basis. That's why I was thinking it's not just me, there could be pain. I don't let her get away with things. That's how I fix an individual behavior. But she seems to think - OK, that's not allowed, let's see what else I can try. Silly thing.
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post #27 of 28 Old 11-09-2017, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Does her behavior change, when she is in heat?
As Jaydee mentioned, mares can have colic like symptoms just before they ovulate, and that lasts only about an hour or so, or, if they have an ovarian cyst or even a granuloma tumor, that can affect behavior, with the latter secreting abnormal hormones that can make a mare act aggressive
You can rule these possibilities out, even seeing if behavior i s hormone related, depending on time of month, but in the end, a horse that bolts when led and displays some of the other things you mentioned, needs more consistent handling and riding
She doesn't display any changes in behavior when she is in heat.

Just to clarify, she is not aggressive and those behaviors have long been fixed, as soon as she tried them. Bolting and biting were fixed on the first try. She came up with new ones :)

Thank you for your time again, it does mean a lot.
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post #28 of 28 Old 12-03-2017, 08:20 PM
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I agree. She seems to be too smart for me :/ She has an entire spectrum of antics, I keep fixing them and she keeps coming up with new ones. Things like snatching legs out of my hand, not standing nicely in cross ties, bolting for the stable when being led... Every single naughty thing you can think of she picks up for a week or two, I fix it and she starts up with a new one. Maybe I am being too gentle with her, I don't really shout or hit her because she hugely overreacts. Except when she showed her teeth - that lesson she only needed to be thought once.

I think you are right, when there is something exciting happening she goes really, really nicely - light of the leg, easy to steer, no gate sourness. She seems to like jumping and when she figures out we're jumping it's a different horse. I can get her going like that in flat work as well but it's always a battle and hard work.

This pain thing has been nagging me though, and I would like to put it out of my mind so that I can get after her with a clear conscience. Not that I don't already but there is always a little voice in my head telling me that I might be torturing this poor horse. I think she has my number :)

Again, she's never dangerous or completely disrespectful, she seems to know how to skirt my boundaries. Smart thing. Or I defend my innate boundaries without thinking and not so much the other things:)
You don't need to hit her or shout to be assertive. Work on being assertive and confident just overall, I think it will help you.

Also, this is very dependent but don't fall into nitpicking with her (well that part's not dependent lol) sometimes ignoring her behavior might be appropriate, like a child acting up for attention. Think of it as you're above her and don't need to worry about what she's doing.. she'll get bored of it really quickly and try nicer ways to get your attention. Again, super dependent, obviously biting wasn't something to ignore :)

Good post by Smilie.
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