Problems handling and leading new weanlings?? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 59 Old 11-11-2014, 04:08 PM
Green Broke
 
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They are gorgeous! Ima come steal them. ^_^

What you can do to start with is just spending some time with them. Go out, pet them if you can. Take haltering slowly especially with the one that's afraid of them (right?). Let her smell the halter, rub it on her, etc.

Keep going, keep moving forward. You'll get it together someday.
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post #22 of 59 Old 11-11-2014, 04:24 PM
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Oh wow they are beauties!! You're going to have so much fun watching them grow up...in my experience, it IS true for babies that they should have a similar age companion, at least another young horse, any companion horse is better than none but two weanlings/yearlings together really do well, they play off each other and bond real close...older horses dont always like to play a lot like a baby does but two babies have a lot of fun playing together...
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post #23 of 59 Old 11-11-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loungess View Post
Thanks - I think so too!
I put them out with their halters on because I was specifically told to take them off when in the stall, but keep them on outside!
~~~~Sigh~~~~>head<desk~~~~~

The sound you just heard was a collective scream rippling across the Atlantic.
Lounges, your heart is in the right place, I can tell. You really are trying and I salute you. But you, and your girls are going to have to endure a huge learning curve to get started in the world of horses. One thing I have learned is this: You can never learn enough about horses, it is a constant educational process. When that trainer comes out, video tape what he does, ask questions, lots of questions, and see if you can arrange to hire his services a couple times a week for a few months. You will need the expertise he can offer.

I have a huge problem with the woman who sold you these lovely girls. Any breeder with any sense of responsibility would take the time to make sure the new owner and the horses are a good fit. It seems this one just held her hand out for the $$$$$ and didn't care about anything else, as evidenced by drugging one of the fillies for hauling. She would have put her own time into making sure that at 6 months, both of them had been taught to halter, lead, have their feet done etc.

When I bought my first horse in 1985, I bought a half Arabian stallion!!! And he was half starved to boot! I didn't know that stallions had to be segregated, didn't even have a place to keep him, and had a dog leash for a lead rope. Luckily fate stepped in and I found a mentor, who bless her heart, taught me a lot about basic horse care and handling. And that's what you need, a mentor. You have the heart and desire to learn and do what's right. Some of what you learn will be wrong, and some will be right. You will have days where progress is made, and days where you will land on your butt. I don't know what your nationality is, but start researching horse clubs, farms, equestrians in your area and make some phone calls, emails, to see who you can find with experience.

And get in that stall with your girls, just stand there and let them approach you, and go from there. We expect updates on what you've learned and the progress you're making every few days.
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post #24 of 59 Old 11-11-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by loungess View Post
I asked the breeder's advice - she told me to hit her in the face with my hand if she bit, or tried to bite! And that to lead her, I just have to 'show her who is boss' !! I do not want this kind of relationship with my horses - they are babies at the moment - there must be a better way?
Even though they are young, they are horses. They cannot be treated as a pet. They have to be treated as a horse. It is hard to do since they are cute and loveable and you are inexperienced.

You do need to learn a lot and quick. I'm not saying this in a mean way. I'm just trying to make you aware. Things you need to learn are how to handle and teach them. Also you need to learn about herd dynamics.

Yes, horses should be kept with at least one other herd animal. It could be a cow, goat, mule, donkey, alpaca, sheep, etc. However, a young horse should have an older horse to teach it the roles of a herd.

Bugzapper may have seemed blunt or harsh but there is truth there too.

If you can, I would suggest researching some of the big name trainers and their methods. Personally, I like Clinton Anderson. He is easy to understand and follow. Just don't buy into their gadgets. You don't have to buy their "tools" to work with the horse. There are many videos on the Internet and YouTube. They also have many books out there. The problem with not having someone there in person is that the books and videos can't correct you or teach you timing. You need to learn when to apply pressure and where, and when to release or increase the pressure.

When working with horses, you are either sensitizing or desensitizing. Sensitizing is getting them to move or react when they feel pressure. Desensitizing is getting them to not move or react when they feel pressure.

Getting them halter broke is desensitizing. You approach and retreat. Bring the halter towards the horse just to the point that they are going to react and no further, the approach. Then when they relax, move the halter away, the retreat. Now you keep repeating but each time you should be able to get closer to your goal. Once you get the halter next to the horse, don't try to put it on. Just try to rub it on them and the retreat.

As for leading, teaching them to give to pressure is part of halter breaking. Keep calm. I was leading our weanling with my wife beside us. He started acting up and not walking like he should. I got after him just like a normal horse and my wife acted similar to you. She told me to be nice because he was a baby. I corrected him like I would with any other horse and he knocked it off. If I had treated him like a baby, he would have become worse. You could use a butt rope or a crop or training stick. When they won't move forward, create pressure behind them. If they pull, don't pull back but don't give them slack. Hold the pressure until they give and move towards you. Just be ready for them to leap forward.

Good luck with them and hopefully you can get your trainer soon.
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post #25 of 59 Old 11-11-2014, 05:02 PM
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Do you have a friend that knows both English and german? They could translate for you.

Keep going, keep moving forward. You'll get it together someday.
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post #26 of 59 Old 11-11-2014, 05:25 PM
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loungess if the fence is electric as it looks to be and the pasture is free of debris or other such they can hang up on leave them on as you have been asked. Yes, there is risk but it should be minimal and will make teaching easier if you have a ready handle. You can actually use them to teach putting a halter on and taking one off fairly easily if they already have one on. Make sure what is on is not so loose that they can easily catch a hoof if scratching. It looks as if there are other animals around I would not be overly concerned with having a pair at the moment. You may find it to your advantage to sell the second and work with the first. Better would be to have an already been there done that as a first horse but the draw to a youngster is understandable. I would leave them in the pasture if there are such issues leading until you have a handle on that. Go out often or as often as possible and bring a slightly larger halter with you. Focus on the first horse. Catch her and reinforce good things happen when caught by brushing and stroking or scratching in a safe place always carry the second halter with you and rub her all over with it even her face. She should get to a point where having it open and ready isn't an issue and you can start slipping it up her face eventually over her ears. It could well be the one that turns her butt my not have been handled in the sense that she was haltered. lead or worked with but it can be the case that there are people out with them that think nothing of scratching their butts and training them essentially to present their feel good spot first. I'd say carry a whip and discourage this behavior or teach her to present to your side so you and the butt are facing one direction and your shoulder is in her hip. Then you can reach over with your other hand to scratch but reinforce that she can not turn her butt into you. She may need to be wormed and that could effectively lessen or cut out the behavior as well. Good luck with them. They're beautiful girls.
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post #27 of 59 Old 11-12-2014, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Hi again - thanks so much for all the help and encouragement!! Here's an update on our position....

Today was Trainer Day!!

The trainer (who is a Geran speaking Dutchman) brought along his daughter. It seems he works usually as a riding trainer, whilst she is a horse trainer....and boy, was I delighted to find that the their words were 'take it slow, let her come to you, let her learn to trust you' !!

It was maybe unclear from my Original post, but my 2 girls come from very different places........... the Trainer's expression was that they were as different as Black and White.

Shergar came from a 'professional' breeder........the trainer's view was that she has had a bad experience......when she arrived (and the drugs had worn off) she could not be touched or approached. Now she somes over willingly to be brushed and petted - although still refuses to be held in any way. But the Trainer's view of her biting was that she was simply doing what she would do to her mother.....that she was nipping me as her 'new' mother because she wanted to be fed. He thought that feeding her snacks would only help with the bonding and trust, and not to stop. Their opinion was that as she has only been seperated from her Mum for 2 weeks, she is doing really well to have gained so much trust in me already.........have to say that felt good to hear!!

Vicky comes from a family who 'hobby' breed, and drive a carriage. The guy is really sweet, and very clearly loves his horses. Vicky had been handled lots, and brushed with pride! She is very calm, enjoys attention and accepts a halter easily. But she spooks when I try to put them out - it's not a straightforward route, and there are lots to pass - round the house, through the garden and low trees, past the aviaries with Parrots and the sheep and geese in the field...

The trainer, however, agrees that if I add an electric line on each side to create a walkway for them to follow, from their barn to the field, it should become be no problem with them - just keep on repeating the trip each day and they will soon settle down. He suggests carrying on as before, leading Vicky and allowing Shergar to follow, for the next couple of weeks.

So tomorrow, I will set up the fencing/electric line, and Friday morning the Trainer will come to help/observe us put them out again.

In the meantime, he has advised to continue building trust with Shergar in her stall, stroking, brushing, haltering her (or working on it!).....

Can't wait to see them outside again - it's such a thrill to see them running and playing - I love watching them buck and feel free...

I did get one of my boys to video most of the session today, but there is very little action!!! Will try to get a record of them going out Friday, to keep everyone posted with our progress!!

One more question - regular halters v rope halters........I have to replace Shergar's halter, as it is too small, and Vicksy's is a heavy leather one....I see many suggestions from the internet when researching haltering and leading that rope halters are better..........anyone have any advice ??
Thanks again!
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post #28 of 59 Old 11-13-2014, 03:00 AM
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Firstly, I disagree with tidbit feeding your foals. They have no older horses to teach them manners when they get pushy and rude.
Can you have a bucket with you, and feed them from the bucket? They will then associate bucket with feed, not your hands or pockets!

Also, in regards to Shergar in the stall... Just be careful. Horses that feel cornered will act out, and taking it slow is the best option. Do not get yourself in to a position where she may get nervous or possibly try and take charge and turn her backside to you, or corner you in the stall.. you have no where to escape.

Germans, for some reason LOVE quick release leadropes. Forget it. Look at the western section of your tack shop, if needs be.
I love this site, and their shops. There is one in Erkelenz, not sure how far that would be for you Reitsport-Exclusiv
I like this sort 50439 WALDHAUSEN Führstrick FINESSE | reitsport-exclusiv
As for head collars.
You cannot, under any circumstances, leave a rope halter on an unattended horse. There is no way for it to break if they get caught up. But for training, they can be super handy. I however have never seen any in foal size in Germany. (as seen here, they only go to pony size 50411 WALDHAUSEN Knotenhalfter | reitsport-exclusiv and ask how it's pronounced.. I did it wrong and made it sound like a lady of the night woops). Also, as a side thought, someone else may be able to confirm... but it may be too "sharp" for a foals delicate facial bones at this age!
I would say stick with a normal headcollar for now, and as training develops and they learn their foal ABC, look at a rope.. but get your instructor to show you how to use it with pressure and release.

I wish I were closer!

If this trainer, for whatever reason, does not work out please feel free to contact me and I will speak to friends/trainers from my old area to see what we can come up with :)
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post #29 of 59 Old 11-13-2014, 06:07 PM
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....no matter what you do i would -not- give your foals any reward type things right after they bite you...it will teach them more biting! Yelling NO, smack on shoulder, other unpleasant thing is really what you got to do when they do something dangerous and biting is dangerous...they got to understand they just did a 'unforgiveable sin'... :P dittoing the no-halters-in-pasture thing...it can be dangerous...also is there a reason you need to stall them at all?? i dont stall my boys at all, tho we got a corral and barn if they needed to be confined for whatever...but the default is them being out 24/7.

maybe for an older companion maybe get an older horse that can only be a pasture pet and keep him/her with them...theyre right about them needing a older horse around to teach them their manners...when i got my two weanlings last year they were put in with two older horses that keep them in line...
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post #30 of 59 Old 11-14-2014, 07:30 AM
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I'm new here so please accept what I have to say with a grain of salt (but not a hand fed treat!). I have oodles of concerns here but to keep it brief, my two main points are
1.) keep them out 24/7 ...as much as possible
2.) I see llamas or alpacas some sort of prey/herd animal. You can seriously consider keeping the easier horse and finding a new home for Mr. Gorgeous, the little guy who needs an experienced horse person, if you feel over your head and looking for another solution to this dilemma. It is true to say horses aren't their happiest when kept alone but I would prefer to see you be successful with one horse who has plenty of llamas for friends then be a failure with two.

Jeanne in Michigan (my caveat: third post ever.)
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