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post #31 of 35 Old 07-23-2018, 01:28 AM
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I think the first thing to learn about is how challenging it is to keep a horse healthy in Western Oregon, if that's where you're headed. Mud, rain rot, rampant founder and insulin resistance, shrinking riding opportunities, thrush, and probably eight months of the year that you must be willing to ride in the rain. If Central/Eastern Oregon, bone dry, bitter winters, wildfire smoke and giant private land holdings. Popping out the gate and going for a ride is for the lucky few. I'd settle in and educate myself, find out what it's really like to keep livestock here, and take advantage of guest ranches and outfitters for your horse fix until you're ready to take the plunge.
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post #32 of 35 Old 07-23-2018, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dogpatch View Post
I think the first thing to learn about is how challenging it is to keep a horse healthy in Western Oregon, if that's where you're headed. Mud, rain rot, rampant founder and insulin resistance, shrinking riding opportunities, thrush, and probably eight months of the year that you must be willing to ride in the rain.
The OP is talking about Eugene, which has weather more like central Oregon. It's a lot drier in Eugene than western Oregon, about half the rainfall of the coast. You're not going to have the issues with mud, thrush or rain rot there, but I have to say it's not that challenging to keep horses healthy even on the north coast where it is the wettest. It's just about management - horses need rain sheets so they don't get rain rot, and the fields have to be managed so the horses are not standing in mud. I rarely deal with thrush or rain rot.

I'm not sure what is meant by shrinking riding opportunities either. Oregon has about 100 horse camps and 15 million acres of BLM land. The Oregon Equestrian Trails organization has 16 chapters. With a horse trailer you can ride for endless miles and camp out if you wish.

Founder and insulin resistance are not related to where you live. They also are related to management and are common everywhere if people use the wrong feeding practices.

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If Central/Eastern Oregon, bone dry, bitter winters, wildfire smoke and giant private land holdings. Popping out the gate and going for a ride is for the lucky few. I'd settle in and educate myself, find out what it's really like to keep livestock here, and take advantage of guest ranches and outfitters for your horse fix until you're ready to take the plunge.
I have a few friends who live in central and eastern Oregon. They love the weather and the country is vast with a very small percentage of the fires one might see in California. It would be extremely rare to deal with wildfire smoke. Every one of them can ride for miles and miles right out their back door, and describe it as paradise. I would move there if I could take the cold winters and hot summers. But those temperatures are not bad compared to many areas of the country.
I've attached pics of the backyards of my friends in central and eastern OR
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post #33 of 35 Old 07-23-2018, 02:23 PM
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"It's a lot drier in Eugene than western Oregon, about half the rainfall of the coast"


Isn't everything west of the Cascades considered Western Oregon? :o) Now, Medford/Ashland, you're getting dry! :o) But that's still southwest. We live about 35 miles SE of PDX and experience roughly 100% more rain. And Santiam Pass is considered the most dramatic climate change point in the world, with rainfall decreasing roughly one inch for every 15 miles! So it's hard to make generalizations about the weather. Some areas are in rain shadow and receive much less rain. And perhaps a picture of Central Oregon isn't quite representing Eugene. It's probably a 2-3 hour trip over the Cascades to get to land that looks like the pics. I'm just trying to say that owning a horse without transportation can be complicated by a lack of out-the-gate riding opportunities, vast public lands notwithstanding.



"Founder and insulin resistance are not related to where you live. They also are related to management and are common everywhere if people use the wrong feeding practices."


F and I are very much related to where you live, especially if you live in the NW. I'm not being a smarty so please don't take offense. I concentrated on growing nutrient dense hay here for years and made a deep study of it. I can fully account for my statement. If you like, I will be happy to supply some interesting reading that you won't find collected elsewhere into one place. Founder and insulin resistance here are related to the fact that Oregon soils are so leached of minerals, except potassium, that hay grown here cannot convert the sugar of photosynthesis into protein and other phytonutrients. C. Or. orchard grass...you know how they're producing low carb hay? By cutting it, then irrigating it to wash the sugar out. Along with all the other water-soluble phytonutrients.


Even the Department of Agriculture admits that it is nearly impossible to grow decent hay in western Oregon and Central Oregon grows problem hay due to cultural practices.



The other thing about Oregon hay is the excessive levels of potassium native to the state's soil, augmented by relentless fertilization with yet more potassium. C. Or hay routinely runs in excess of 3% potassium, without nearly enough calcium and magnesium to offset the destructive behavior of excessive K in the gut. It interferes with Ca and Mg metabolism (known laminitis triggers) and encourages the proliferation of opportunistic pathogens in the gut, which can contribute to a toxic cascade of events that trigger laminitis. A deficiency of boron in Oregon soil leads to the inability of grasses to translocate sugars from the leaves to the roots at night, so the suggestion that grass is safer to graze in the early morning may be gravely misleading to the Oregon horse keeper. You can do everything right here and still suffer metabolic disease, particularly with sensitive breeds. Some blame needs to be shifted away from owners and onto growers. But growers only care about yield, not nutrition, so they will never take ownership in health problems that their product creates.



There's a lot going on with hay and pasture in this state that can't be blamed on owner negligence.



Any time you want to shake out the problems with Oregon hay, I'd love a conversation! I have about 95% of a book written on the subject.


How about ash content of 15%? Anything above 5% is dirt, the rest is mineral nutrition. Oregon livestock ARE dying from such excessive ash. Partly because of the dusty, volcanic ash common to C. OR hay, as well as the use of disk mowers that suck up so much more dirt than older equipment.



This year the hay I'm getting has a lot of sugar and starch washed out of it, but they also managed to wash out a considerable amount of protein (C. OR orchard grass). But the potassium's still there. So I'll be juggling to supply calcium, magnesium and protein this year.



But every area has it's horsekeeping challenges! :o)
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post #34 of 35 Old 07-23-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dogpatch View Post
"Founder and insulin resistance are not related to where you live. They also are related to management and are common everywhere if people use the wrong feeding practices."

F and I are very much related to where you live, especially if you live in the NW. I'm not being a smarty so please don't take offense. I concentrated on growing nutrient dense hay here for years and made a deep study of it. I can fully account for my statement. If you like, I will be happy to supply some interesting reading that you won't find collected elsewhere into one place. Founder and insulin resistance here are related to the fact that Oregon soils are so leached of minerals, except potassium, that hay grown here cannot convert the sugar of photosynthesis into protein and other phytonutrients. C. Or. orchard grass...you know how they're producing low carb hay? By cutting it, then irrigating it to wash the sugar out. Along with all the other water-soluble phytonutrients.

Even the Department of Agriculture admits that it is nearly impossible to grow decent hay in western Oregon and Central Oregon grows problem hay due to cultural practices.

The other thing about Oregon hay is the excessive levels of potassium native to the state's soil, augmented by relentless fertilization with yet more potassium. C. Or hay routinely runs in excess of 3% potassium, without nearly enough calcium and magnesium to offset the destructive behavior of excessive K in the gut. It interferes with Ca and Mg metabolism (known laminitis triggers) and encourages the proliferation of opportunistic pathogens in the gut, which can contribute to a toxic cascade of events that trigger laminitis. A deficiency of boron in Oregon soil leads to the inability of grasses to translocate sugars from the leaves to the roots at night, so the suggestion that grass is safer to graze in the early morning may be gravely misleading to the Oregon horse keeper. You can do everything right here and still suffer metabolic disease, particularly with sensitive breeds. Some blame needs to be shifted away from owners and onto growers. But growers only care about yield, not nutrition, so they will never take ownership in health problems that their product creates.

There's a lot going on with hay and pasture in this state that can't be blamed on owner negligence.

Any time you want to shake out the problems with Oregon hay, I'd love a conversation! I have about 95% of a book written on the subject.

How about ash content of 15%? Anything above 5% is dirt, the rest is mineral nutrition. Oregon livestock ARE dying from such excessive ash. Partly because of the dusty, volcanic ash common to C. OR hay, as well as the use of disk mowers that suck up so much more dirt than older equipment.

This year the hay I'm getting has a lot of sugar and starch washed out of it, but they also managed to wash out a considerable amount of protein (C. OR orchard grass). But the potassium's still there. So I'll be juggling to supply calcium, magnesium and protein this year.
Interesting.
Wasn't trying to be argumentative, but it sounded pretty bleak to have horses in Oregon and it's a great state to have and ride horses in.

We've not experienced the issues you're having with hay. We have tested both the eastern orchard grass hay, and also valley grass. Our last batch in the fall had a decent protein level of 10%, which is normal for grass hay. It also was low NSC.
I've not heard about issues with potassium except for HYPP horses. Our hay tested at 2%. Do you have links you can share?

Most of the horses around here do not have IR or hoof issues, but I've seen it mainly when people feed the horses to the point of obesity. My own horse died this year from founder, but it could not be blamed on the hay, grass or obesity.
Regardless of what hay or pasture is available, owners can test and balance the diet. But a lot of people around here don't do that, and most have healthy horses.
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post #35 of 35 Old 07-24-2018, 12:39 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Goodness! I'm beginning to think it must be a miracle that my horses are alive and healthy. I'm in the NW corner of Oregon and my horses get local hay. The 28 year old is sleek and the vet says she looks great, and the 19 year old is, well, let's just say we don't call her Fatassy Sassy for nothing. Along with the hay, they get a bagged feed and supplements according to their needs. They have a pasture, stalls and are free to do as they please 24/7.
In this part of the state the weather can dampen one's desire to ride part of the year...or not. Just depends on your desire to ride.
When you get to the point of looking for places to ride, there are several books that are excellent!!!! Kim McCarrel's Oregon trail and horse camp books are published by Ponderosa Press in Bend. They are worth having, all of them.
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