The rise of scams in the world of supplements and accessories - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 12:10 PM
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I'm a born sceptic so I doubt everything!
My vet recommended the BOT leg wraps after his daughter had successful results with them - They've had a huge difference to the recovery time whenever I've used them compared to when I didn't use them and compared to regular bandaging and pads. They also stop Willow's legs from stocking up, she's got Cushing's disease so has poor circulation and the BOT's have made all the difference to her.
I haven't tried them myself but I do know that when I wear padded trousers to do the barn in when it drops below the freezing mark I don't suffer any of the aches and pains in my legs that I have when I don't wear them.
Where the supplements are concerned you have to look to see what's in them - things like Mare Magic for example. The raspberry leaves are high in magnesium, magnesium is known to be a muscle relaxant so it probably eases the discomfort some mares get when in season but its has no effect at all on the hormone side of things. If I have aches and pains I always have a soak in an Epsom Salts bath - works very well. The only negative with Mare Magic is that if you want a guaranteed dose you're better to be an actual magnesium supplement.


A couple of years ago Horse and Hound published a research trial done on joint supplements that found that none of them gave any improvement in action and that the horses improved most for having regular light exercise
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post #52 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 12:16 PM
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The only negative with Mare Magic is that if you want a guaranteed dose you're better to be an actual magnesium supplement.
This is another really good point about herbal and natural supplements. The concentrations are unknown and can vary throughout the plant or through processing. With a manufactured supplement(the honest ones), the values are measured and known.
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post #53 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 02:43 PM
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Vet David Ramey has some musings on supplements ... people seem to either LOVE him or HATE him. Me, I think he speaks alot of common sense. Here's some:

What’s Up With People Using Supplements (and for Themselves, Too)?

Holistically Yours
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post #54 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 03:28 PM
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Many medicines were derived originally from somewhere in nature - a fungus, a plant, a hormone, a mineral. We've synthesized some and fiddled around until we found a dosage that worked for a majority.

The reason most of you have most of your teeth is because someone figured out that the mineral fluoride, when added to your drinking water, keeps your teeth from rotting out of your skull. Somebody figured out that iodine keeps you from getting goiters (ever wonder what "iodized" salt meant?), and Vitamin C keeps you from getting Scurvy.

Unfortunately, that's the thing with animals. They can't tell us why they hurt, or what's wrong, so we've got to do a little more experimentation. Sometimes a medicine can help, a change of diet, more exercise, massage, etc.

Because herbs and supplements aren't regulated, it can be easy to fall into the Snake Oil pit. I'm finding now that there are people trying to solve everything with essential oils - I did aromatherapy before it was cool as a massage therapist, so I also know that certain oils can burn you, poison you, irritate your lungs, cause miscarriages, and even kill your pets. That same lovely scent in cedar and pine oil can slowly cause your kidneys and liver to fail if you absorb enough of it through your skin. But if used correctly, and in the right ways, essential oils can be helpful in some situations, too.

My point in all this is that we've got to be skeptical when somebody comes along promising us the moon and the stars in a bottle, for just a few dollars! We need to document problems, take pictures, ask many many questions, know basic science, and have a critical eye when someone's trying to sell you something.
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post #55 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Many medicines were derived originally from somewhere in nature - a fungus, a plant, a hormone, a mineral. We've synthesized some and fiddled around until we found a dosage that worked for a majority.

The reason most of you have most of your teeth is because someone figured out that the mineral fluoride, when added to your drinking water, keeps your teeth from rotting out of your skull.
I agree with you, mostly. Except that I've never drank fluoride in my water in all 47 years of my life, have always lived on wells in the country where nothing is added. And somehow, I still have all my teeth!

But yes, medicine is derived from nature in some form or another, and it's good that we are still learning.

Also, I'd add that I absolutely believe that some alternative treatments work - take acupuncture.

It is just very difficult for the newbie to sift through all the stuff currently on the market and I guess I've reached a point of saturation. It doesn't mean I won't supplement of course, just that I'll be more discerning about what I buy.
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post #56 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Double-post. Sorry. HF is acting up for me again.
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post #57 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 04:30 PM
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Here's another example: spirulina (blue-green algae). I have been giving it to both horses for about a year. Harley's not coughing anymore, and Kodak appears to be a little less jumpy. But honestly, I'd be surprised if it had anything to do with the spirulina. Thoughts on that one?
I have a friend who feeds blue-green algae to all of his dogs (police K-9's -- one his current dog, one his retired dog, one a deceased partner's retired dog) and he swears the dogs keep weight on better and have fewer joint issues when they take it. He's got a couple of OTTB's with soundness problems who are markedly better on it, too. He's a believer. I wouldn't doubt something so chock-full of vitamins and minerals may play a role in keeping the body healthy. I think a lot of issues in people, dogs, horses, etc. come from vitamin/mineral imbalances that are undetected, too.

Blue-green algae MUST be purchased from a reliable source. Too little and it's worthless. Too much and it's dangerous. Wrong type and it's toxic. Some types of blue-green algaes are deadly to animals. We had some growing on an area pond a few years ago during a drought and people couldn't figure out why their dogs were dying shortly after swimming in the pond, then a boy got sick and word got out. Be careful!
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post #58 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulefeather View Post
Because herbs and supplements aren't regulated, it can be easy to fall into the Snake Oil pit. I'm finding now that there are people trying to solve everything with essential oils - I did aromatherapy before it was cool as a massage therapist, so I also know that certain oils can burn you, poison you, irritate your lungs, cause miscarriages, and even kill your pets. That same lovely scent in cedar and pine oil can slowly cause your kidneys and liver to fail if you absorb enough of it through your skin. But if used correctly, and in the right ways, essential oils can be helpful in some situations, too.
Yup. People seem to forget that just because something is 'natural' or 'herbal' that it doesn't mean it's harmless. Just as many natural things can kill you as there are pharmaceuticals with no LD50. Or that they can't interact with other things. St John's Wort is a perfect example of this. It's a flowering plant that can be useful to treat depression symptoms, but it can have serious pharma-kinetic interactions at therapeutic doses with other medications. It's basically unregulated but can have serious consequences.
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post #59 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kewpalace View Post
Vet David Ramey has some musings on supplements ... people seem to either LOVE him or HATE him. Me, I think he speaks alot of common sense. Here's some:

What’s Up With People Using Supplements (and for Themselves, Too)?

Holistically Yours
Ok, I got a real kick out of reading those. :)
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post #60 of 91 Old 02-05-2018, 05:09 PM
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but if you want your dog to reap the benefits of O3 then you need to also provide it in the form of DHA and EPA which is found mainly in fish but is also found in eggs and dairy in smaller amounts. Horses need ALA. ALA is found in spirulina so this should make it an excellent source except that horses didn't evolve to eat pond scum. The benefit of the ALA in that source may not be best for the horse due to other factors.
Interesting. Good thing my dogs are on a mostly(they occasionally get kibble or canned... if I've run out of other) raw diet, including fresh frozen pilchards or sardines & eggs. They get no 'nutritional supps' but get their bulk in muscle meat with frequent meals of chicken legs or necks(or even whole chickens when on special), or kangaroo tail(for bones/Ca) & kidneys & liver(vit & mineral rich), then they get a few pilchards & eggs per week too.

Bringing us to 'paleo diet' theory for people - we also should all be eating what we were evolved to eat. (And my nutritionist sister reckons certain people weren't evolved to cope with vegetarian diets either - some can be healthy vego's, others just can't). We are by no means pedantic, eat too much processed as well, but I do try to feed my family on low carb(little bread, spuds, rice etc) fresh vegies, fruit, nuts, free range meat, eggs... and soon to be our own chickens, goats & milk.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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