Six plus weeks in...give up or start over? - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 40 Old 08-23-2013, 08:49 AM
roo
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I agree with dimsum. Id be looking to rehome especially since your scared of the horse.work on getting your confidence back.part of the reason your horse is acting like this is it knows your scared which means your also vieeed as a herd member down the pecking order not as the leader which is where you need to be.
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post #32 of 40 Old 08-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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IMO a barn sour/ buddy sour etc horse is one of the easiest things to overcome but it does take a lot of consistency. I'm zipping up my flame suit but if your trainer can not handle him and he is getting worse under her instruction you need a new trainer.

Working him hard in the round pen is doing him no favors, it can actually make things worse. In his mind the barn is a great place to be because there is no work and the arena, trails, round pen etc are all bad places to be because that is where he is worked. It shouldn't take months to retrain, a few weeks at most and the majority would be groundwork done properly.

However, you should NOT be having to deal with these things, with your confidence shaken. I agree with rehoming him and getting a true steddy eddie horse to get your confidence back and where you can work on your riding skills without having to worry about your horse being dangerous.

With where he is at now, at least in my area you would have a hard time giving him away unfortunately. In your area it might be different. Here it would be better to put with a good trainer for a couple weeks THEN list him for sale when is safe to ride again.

Half leasing a horse or even just taking lessons for now could also be a better option for now. As beginner or reriders we all make mistakes, and even the most bombproof horse can turn into a lunatic when let get away with things, with half leasing you wouldn't be the only one to be influencing the horse, thus lessening the chance of any bad habits arising. Just taking lessons for now will improve your skills, where you will know how to handle bad situations and get them under control before it escalates to that point.
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post #33 of 40 Old 08-23-2013, 06:53 PM
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Sometimes giving up is the best thing to do for you and for the horse.
These sort of horses can be sorted out but mostly not be someone who's lost their confidence and doesn't have the experience to start with
What you need is a horse that's not going to challenge you at every turn - has the right mindset for a now nervous person just starting out. They are out there, you just have to take your time to find the right one.
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post #34 of 40 Old 08-23-2013, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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It's not harsh, Dim, I get what you're saying.

It's a complicated situation because he is 22yo and arthritic...was really worked hard when he was younger from what we can tell. There's always that possibility that the behavior issues at least in part stem from some sort of discomfort or pain...opinions on whether or not he should be ridden have ranged from a big fat "no" to he's strong and will be fine but needs to be ridden regularly to rehab him.

I feel like if I could work with him daily we could make some headway but you know how some people say that every moment you spend with a horse you ARE training them? I'm not in the right head-space right now to deal with him...amazing how my situation changed so drastically in the few months since I bought him! When I bought him I had all the time in the world and access to the right facilities...I leased a horse prior to buying my own and the time seemed right. I just bought the wrong horse and had my timing all wrong.

It's not his fault though and I think he'll be happier/healthier on pasture regardless of how much we can work with him. He's a creaky old guy.
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post #35 of 40 Old 08-26-2013, 02:42 PM
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I take a lot of pleasure in just looking at my horses in a field with other horses. They don't take any notice of me but i make a point of stroking them every time. Other days they make a good fuss of me.
No fun riding a horse your afraid of.
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post #36 of 40 Old 08-27-2013, 11:54 AM
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You need a confidence-building horse and from what you've described, this horse isn't right for you. I'd also be looking at a different trainer (do you mean the person trains the horse, or the rider, or both?)...as this one isn't helping...horses are quick learners if we are consistent. They're intelligent within a narrow range and they are "live in the moment" creatures so they don't see the future and don't dwell on the past. They live by instinct and herd mentality. Anyway, slightly off the track there...

I've bought and sold a number of horses, some intentionally, others were "mistakes" I learnt from and quickly. I've learnt to have a good solid seat no matter what. To wear safety equipment EVERY ride, that means helmet, boots, gloves, a long-sleeved garment, and for an unknown horse, a body protector. I've learnt that some horses are easily made good and others need way more help than I'm prepared to put into them. I've lost a stirrup many a time and at a fast pace (usually a gallop or bolt) and the best thing to do in that situation is turn the horse. Use the leg that still has its stirrup in place to turn the horse so that the loose leg has half a chance of being replaced into its stirrup and no matter what, lean in the direction of travel you want the horse to take. This helps keep you balanced. Try not to hold onto the saddle with your hands because you need them firmly on the reins and if necessary, the horse's mane.
Rehome this horse with full disclosure and find something that is a genuine nervous rider/beginner's horse. It will cost you more money but what's your life worth? Best of luck.
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post #37 of 40 Old 08-28-2013, 11:22 PM
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Lily, I think that if you do get on This horse again, you will be very tense and stiff becuase you are waiting for a Bad thing to happen. Because you are tense and stiff the horse is going to get ansy believing there must be something to worry about. If you grip with your legs and start getting into the "fetal tuck" you loose all your ability to control the horse. To be effective on a horse you must sit tall, open your chest so you can engage your abs and back muscles, open your hips so you can stretch your legs down and stay loose so you can keep your seat fluid to stay with the horse. The exact opposite of the instictual fetal tuck your brain tells you to do when you are scared.

I would suggest you buy yourself a packer, a horse from a riding camp or a school horse that just can't take the 7 day a week schedule anymore. You may have to spend a bit on supplements to keeep him comfortable and sound, he may have performance limits ( no jumping) or need special shoes ( heart bars in summer) but at least he will be Dead Broke.

Next find a better trainer and coach. Getting a barn sour horse out of the yard walking down the road and Walking, not running, trotting or jigging back home, but calm on the buckle flat foot walking is just NOT that hard with a broke horse. 1 or 2 lessons and this type of silliness should be done with. would hope the trainer would have a horse that the owner could ride out with the trainer so to observe the entire process. After all, it is the owner who needs to be able to do this, correct? I wonder just how much experiance your "trainer" has?
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post #38 of 40 Old 08-29-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KylieHuitema View Post
I will just add one piece of information in that I know that will stop a bolting horse. You take one hand and put it on the opposite side of his neck, and lower it. The other hand you take and raise above your arm on the opposite side. I heard it makes an extremely painful, nutcracking motion in the horses mouth, even when they have the bit in their teeth
This is the most foolish thing I have ever heard of. It will also throw the rider off balance and if they are already hanging on for dear life? What hands are they supposed to use?

And just what you need, with a bolting horse, is to do something which will make them throw their head up from pain, and possibly cause one to go down.



You can give and take with hands level, by taking and releasing one rein and then the other and don't have to put yourself off balance to do so. Nor do you have to inflict pain with nutcracker action.

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post #39 of 40 Old 08-29-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypoo View Post
It's not harsh, Dim, I get what you're saying.

It's a complicated situation because he is 22yo and arthritic...was really worked hard when he was younger from what we can tell. There's always that possibility that the behavior issues at least in part stem from some sort of discomfort or pain...opinions on whether or not he should be ridden have ranged from a big fat "no" to he's strong and will be fine but needs to be ridden regularly to rehab him.

I feel like if I could work with him daily we could make some headway but you know how some people say that every moment you spend with a horse you ARE training them? I'm not in the right head-space right now to deal with him...amazing how my situation changed so drastically in the few months since I bought him! When I bought him I had all the time in the world and access to the right facilities...I leased a horse prior to buying my own and the time seemed right. I just bought the wrong horse and had my timing all wrong.

It's not his fault though and I think he'll be happier/healthier on pasture regardless of how much we can work with him. He's a creaky old guy.

He is old. He is arthritic. How is any type of riding going to be helpful or beneficial to this horse?

Also, since it is hard to age a horse once they pass late teens if they are not papered, this horse could be well past 22.

Doubt that any major diagnostics have been done, MRI's, X-rays, Ultrasounds to completely rule out any spinal problems, hip problems or whatever. Had those been done? I would imagine you would find quite a few major problems with this horse physically.

And the only way he has to tell you he HURTS is to bolt, buck or do whatever it takes to get you off his back.

Some horses can and do ride fairly well in their 20's. Most do not. And if one has been competed on? They have been under more body stresses when young than a horse that has been trail ridden only.

And even if you go get a dead head, well broke, kids horse? If you can not ride, you will end up right back where you are. Having horses when you were younger, and the statement that one was a brat and you fell off a lot, does not inspire any confidence in you as a rider I am afraid.

Horses KNOW when you do not know what you are doing. And they react accordingly too.

I've had some that would not bolt with someone like you, but they would meander around ignoring your attempts to get them to do anything that didn't suit them.

I've had others that would test lightly, and then go ahead IF you could ride well. But those same horses are not going to put up with jigging hands, or poor riding.

I've had some that would veer off into and under trees to get you off.

And I've had some that would dump you the first chance they got.

You need some riding lessons before you go horse shopping again, this horse needs a new home, and then you need to have someone find a horse that is better suited for you, once you learn to ride well, and also to handle one too, as that can cause many problems.
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post #40 of 40 Old 08-29-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypoo View Post
It's not his fault though and I think he'll be happier/healthier on pasture regardless of how much we can work with him. He's a creaky old guy.
Well, Lilypoo, I agree with you. If your friend can keep him as a companion, that is what I would do. As long as he has good care, doesn't get too fat, and has a joint supplement he should be okay until the arthritis gets too uncomfortable. He does not sound like a candidate for retraining if there are health issues.
When you are able look for a calm, well-broke horse, and younger than this one, to enjoy and rebuild your confidence.

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, it's because your tactics suck. ~ Marine 1SGT J. Reifinger
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