Stubborn horse or untrained owner? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 21 Old 11-02-2015, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Elkhart, IN USA
Posts: 20
• Horses: 4
She was still frustrated with me because I had continued bathing her long after she'd warned me repeatedly that I was stressing her out. She started off by stomping her front foot a few times. When that didn't work, she pawed harder, digging gouges of dirt. At this point she was soaking wet and had medicated shampoo all over her; I had no choice but to finish. I had her on the lead rope and was walking beside her back to the pasture and saw her front leg kick out. Unfortunately my first reaction to surprising things is to giggle. I'd never seen a horse do that and it struck me funny for some reason.

I've been reading a lot, here and on other sites. Being the way I am (everything backwards, upside down and the hardest way possible please) I can't really go back now and do things "right." I learn best by jumping in the deep end and depending on my strong will to teach me to swim in time. Hoping that the horses being younger is a good thing; they may tolerate my learning curve better. The one thing I am sure of is that I do need someone who knows horses next to me. Showing me. I learn by doing. Now I just have to convince my horse friend that she needs to give me some of her hours. ;)
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post #12 of 21 Old 11-02-2015, 08:11 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrssnikk View Post
. Hoping that the horses being younger is a good thing; they may tolerate my learning curve better. The one thing I am sure of is that I do need someone who knows horses next to me. Showing me. I learn by doing. Now I just have to convince my horse friend that she needs to give me some of her hours. ;)
Sorry, no, being younger is, in my opinion, the worst thing. Every time you interact with her you are training her, and as you do not have the experience or knowledge to be instilling good habits and good training into her.

AN older horse, a generous one, would not take advantage of your inexperience.

Good luck, I hope you can convince your friend to come and help, it will be so much benefit for you and your horse
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“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”
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post #13 of 21 Old 11-02-2015, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Elkhart, IN USA
Posts: 20
• Horses: 4
You all are telling me what I already knew. Get help lol. If Cotton and Raven being young is all wrong, well I did this whole thing wrong already so it's too late now :) the way I see it we'll grow up together and learn together. It's too late for any other option.
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post #14 of 21 Old 11-02-2015, 08:55 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
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don't feel bad. you'll get it working ok.
last summer I was kicked by a horse and was so surprised that I lost the opportunity to discipline him well. but, you'd better believe I won't even let him get to the point of thinking about kicking me, not this time.

I think that's what you start to develop as you spend more time with horses; the ability to read their thoughts and react accordingly. you start knowing when they are thinking angry thoughts and you don't let them go there.

i suppose, if I were bathing a horse that was getting angry , i might give the lead a good hard tug, or, i might send the horse our on a circle and ask them to go around me quickly;, quicker than they want to. or, best, I might ask them to back up firmly. the choice would be whichever , as the handler, I think I could do best. we have to model our responses to the hrose based on what WE can do successfully. some folks will give you all kinds of great advice on how to treat horses, but until you have the confidence to do it right, best not to try some of the harder things.
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post #15 of 21 Old 11-03-2015, 12:26 AM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 333
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Until you can find someone with experience, you might want to google some basic groundwork videos. At least it will give you something to see and try, until you can have someone come and show you hands on.

Two quick tips I can give you, if you don't have a rope halter, (or sometimes even if you do) constant pulling or pressure, not matter how hard isn't going to work in the long run. You can pull on a rope or push on a horse's side until the cows come home, and a horse will eventually learn that they can take whatever you dish out.

Instead opt for quick, sharp, tugs on a rope or taps with a stick or two fingers. They won't hurt the horse, but the incessant pop, pop, pop, pop of sensation that goes from light, to hard will eventually irritate the horse enough to try to move away. As soon as the horse does, stop immediately.

Stopping the thing that is irritating is the reward.

I had to remind myself of this today doing hooves. My natural inclination is to work on the hooves while she is standing still and being good, but that irritates her and she reaches a point where she expresses, usually by pulling that she's had enough. I had to remember to continue holding the foot, wait for a moment where she was quiet again, and then put the foot down and back off, even though I wasn't done yet.

Then ask her to lift it again after a minute or so. Not touch it, let her stay still, and reward her by putting it back down over and over.

Be careful with the bath that you aren't teaching her inadvertently that throwing a fit will get what she wants (you to stop and deal with the fit) and holding still will get her what she doesn't want, (more bath).

If she holds still for even a moment, back away and let her stand for a second without pressure, then go again. If she gets agitated, keep bathing until she gives a hint of holding still, then back away. Eventually she'll learn that holding still will lead to the water stopping.

Good luck, and I hope you find someone to help.
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post #16 of 21 Old 11-03-2015, 08:04 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: left of center
Posts: 7,141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrssnikk View Post
She was still frustrated with me because I had continued bathing her long after she'd warned me repeatedly that I was stressing her out. She started off by stomping her front foot a few times. When that didn't work, she pawed harder, digging gouges of dirt. At this point she was soaking wet and had medicated shampoo all over her; I had no choice but to finish. I had her on the lead rope and was walking beside her back to the pasture and saw her front leg kick out. Unfortunately my first reaction to surprising things is to giggle. I'd never seen a horse do that and it struck me funny for some reason.

I've been reading a lot, here and on other sites. Being the way I am (everything backwards, upside down and the hardest way possible please) I can't really go back now and do things "right." I learn best by jumping in the deep end and depending on my strong will to teach me to swim in time. Hoping that the horses being younger is a good thing; they may tolerate my learning curve better. The one thing I am sure of is that I do need someone who knows horses next to me. Showing me. I learn by doing. Now I just have to convince my horse friend that she needs to give me some of her hours. ;)
I don't care what you are doing, or how much shampoo is on her……she was showing you disrespect and this type of thing HAS to be stopped the instant it starts. Period. Especially with a young horse. I am hoping you, and your husband can get help soon.
Your way of learning may really backfire on you with horses…….and may get you really hurt.
I will also tell you, it is not too late to change things if you (or your experienced friend) think this is a mistake. If you don't figure this out soon, it will get worse in a hurry. You may have to cut your losses before someone gets really hurt and get a couple of safer, older horses.

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post #17 of 21 Old 11-03-2015, 09:40 AM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,287
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You can probably make her at least less miserable if you get yourself one of these. They simply plug into any outlet and warm up the water in a standard size water bucket. They don't make the water hot, hot but warm enough to take a lot of the misery away!
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post #18 of 21 Old 11-03-2015, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Elkhart, IN USA
Posts: 20
• Horses: 4
I've given up bathing her for the time being. The Listerine and water spray seems to be working better anyway and she tolerates it much better.

I've also got a call in to a trainer who will come to us, show us how to handle them and later give us some riding lessons. I'm just waiting for him to call me back...

As a last resort, I will re-home them. I'm nowhere near that now though. I'm not even feeling overwhelmed (maybe I should be ha!) just anxious to do what's best for them and us too.

The hardest part for me is the correction aspect. My dogs, I can say their name in a tone of voice and they immediately stop what they're doing. Those horses couldn't care less if they're making me happy or not lol. So I need to learn how to correct, when to correct and how to read their body language better so that it doesn't get to the stomping, striking point.

I think Chessie was the most helpful so far in that respect; it's not about reward, it's about the end of what's aggravating them when they behave. That gave me a new perspective.
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post #19 of 21 Old 11-03-2015, 11:05 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 333
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The rain rot should improve as her diet improves as well. Give her lots of carrots. They are high in vitamin A, and should help a little. Keeping her back dry, and all small scabs scratched and curried off will do more to help than anything.

Unfortunately, horses are not dogs and don't seek approval in the same ways. A horse in my experience seeks comfort, peacefulness, and companionship. You'll feel those moments of loving acceptance in the quiet times when you and your horse are at ease and at connected.

Obedience has to come from respect. Respect is earned by a firm and fair hand and a determined heart. Remember she who moves her feet first loses, and the behavior your horse will give you is what you allow. Keep your head on straight, go slowly and methodically, remember that removal of the thing the horse doesn't like is the reward, and get lots of help.

Take one day at a time and soak up knowledge. That's all any of us can really do.
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post #20 of 21 Old 11-04-2015, 01:20 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,838
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Although you say you have stopped bathing her now, I'd just like to put my two cents in by saying I agree with not cold hosing a horse in cold weather. (Except for feet/lower legs.)

And you do not need to use a hose at all. You can sponge bathe with 2 or 3 buckets of warm/hot water. Two for rinsing, and one with shampoo but not too sudsy. Do not apply shampoo directly on the horse - too hard to rinse out by sponging.

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