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post #11 of 35 Old 11-22-2015, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Alhefner View Post
OK, now what does THAT mean?
LOL, this is where I test myself...Trot is a pace of two time, with the near fore and off hind moving together, then the off fore and near hind.

When you ride, start counting, the walk 1 - 2 - 3 - 4, 4 distinct foot falls.

trot, 1 -2, 1-2 two distinct beats, and that is how we set out posting 1 - 2, 1 - 2 up down, up down.

Canter or lope is a 3 time, 1 - 2 - 3, 1- 2 - 3,

Gallop, back to 4 time again.

Ok back to out trot, 1 - 2, 1 - 2 , each time the diagonal pairs of legs moving together, front left with back right, front right with back left. Now posting up and down affects the horse, so we try and balance out how we post,

The saying is, “Rise and fall with the leg on the wall,” and that’s referring to the front outside leg. So, if you were trotting around the arena to the right, you’d rise as the left front leg moved forward. But the reason you do so has to do with the hind legs. Because the trot is a diagonal gait, as the left front leg moves forward, so does the right hind leg. Going in a circle or around an arena fence, the inside leg bears more weight, because of how the horse’s body is arced. So by lifting your weight out of the saddle as that hind leg bears weight, you’re relieving the horse of extra pressure.
Even if you’re trotting in a straight line, say for several miles, you’d want to alternate your posting diagonal so that the horse’s haunches are being worked equally. Read more here The Importance of the Posting Trot


It is a good exercise to ride with eyes shut and start to learn to feel which leg is hitting the ground, it is fun and starts you thinking about the horses whole body..
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post #12 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Alhefner View Post
I've been trying to find out what "lead" and "lead change" mean. It's frustrating because my searches come up with a million advertisements for "lead line" and "lead rope".

Also, what does it mean for the horse to "collect"?
The problem with riding and terminology is that different people use the same terms to mean different things. I feel it is best to use terminology in the traditional sense.

The term “lead” is usually used when discussing the canter, lope, and gallop. The term “canter” is usually used when discussing “English” riding. The term “lope” is usually used when discussing “Western” riding. However, both usually refer to a three beat gait in which the outside hind foot begins the movement when it strikes the ground. This is followed by the inside hind and outside front striking the ground at the same time. Finally, the inside front strikes the ground. The horse pivots over this foot and begins a period of suspension before the movement begins again.

The gallop is slightly different in that the outside hind strikes first. This is followed by the inside hind. Next comes the outside fore. Finally, the inside fore strikes the ground.

Martin Diggle points out in some of his books that confusion often results from the fact that “European writers have traditionally use the French galop (which serves for both canter and gallop) when referring to the three-beat gait of canter. This, in many instances, has been rendered as ‘gallop’ in translations....”

Be that as it may, the “leads” in the canter (lope) and gallop are similar. Some people feel that the lead is determined by the last (leading) foot to strike the ground. I feel that the “lead” is best understood by considering the positioning of the horse’s shoulders and hips when cantering (loping) or galloping. When in the left lead, the horse’s left shoulder is positioned slightly in front of its right shoulder and its left hip is positioned slightly in front of its right hip. When in the right lead, the horse’s right shoulder is positioned slightly in front of its left shoulder and its right hip is positioned slightly in front its left hip. This is similar to the positioning of a human’s hips when skipping.

The use of the term “collection” can be even more confusing. Many people consider the shape of the horse when using the term “collection”. This practice often results in people concentrating on the shape of the horse’s head and neck.

I like to think of various definitions of the word “collection” that I feel also relate to the traditional use of the term when used in relation to riding horses. The term “collect” can be used to describe “gathering” or “bringing together”. When considering riding, this can relate to a gathering or shortening of the horse’s frame. It can also refer to a gather or collecting of the horse’s energy, concentrating this energy to make it available for later use in various ways.

When collection or drawing in a horse’s frame, the horse’s center of gravity is brought further back. The horse’s hind legs take on more of the work of weight bearing as well as propulsion. The feel will be somewhat akin to the feel of a motor boat picking up speed, with the front rising higher than the rear. When riding a horse, this feel is the result of the horse’s pelvis tilting and its hind legs reaching more forward under its body. In addition, the muscles of the thoracic sling lift the horse’s withers higher.

Finally, the term “collection” can also refer to the collecting of the horse’s attention.

This is a brief description of how I use these terms and how I feel the terms have traditionally been used. However, you will find these same terms used in various other ways by numerous individuals.

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post #13 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sarahfromsc View Post
Leads are also used at the trot. While on trail I'll post on the right lead for a bit and then switch and trot on the left lead. No matter what saddle I use, I post the trot for miles and need to switch leads while long trotting.
Since a trot is a two beat gait, there are no leads.
You post on diagonals

Response to OP
ONly a lope or canter (same gait ) , has a lead as it is a three beat gait

The lead a horse is on , is recognized by the leading front leg, although the beginning of that three beat stride starts in the back, with the lead front leg making the final beat in that stride

A lead change means a horse changes either from a right lead to a left lead, or visa versa

A simple lead change has the horse breaking gait (going to a trot step or two, before picking up the opposite lead
In a flying change, there is no break of gait, and is a more advanced maneuver than a simple change
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post #14 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 02:50 AM
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Far a true gallop, it is a four beat gait, although, when horses are asked to hand gallop in an English class, they are just really extending the canter
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post #15 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 02:54 AM
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Here is a good link, describing the beats of the different gaits,and their sequence

http://www.equusite.com/articles/bas...icsGaits.shtml


I find it very interesting that when a lope is slowed beyond a horse's ability to keep a true three beat lope, it degrades into a four beat lope, and when a horse moves at maximum speed (true gallop ) , it becomes also a four beat gait!
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post #16 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 04:38 AM
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"Pair" is referring to which two legs are on the ground at the same time. At the trot there are two legs down and two legs up at all times, an opposite front and hind leg.
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post #17 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
But there is no real 'lead' at the trot, two time pace, even movement on each beat, so the horse does not have a lead as such. We choose to post to a certain pair, but you do not have to request a lead
at the trot, nor do you have a lead change for the horse. You choose which diagonal pair to rise to, and yes it is a good idea to change the diagonal you post to when out and about.

It is also a great idea to learn your posting diagonals early on, other wise, like me, you will struggle for ever, because I was never taught them in the beginning
True dat. But if taking lessons your coach will say (if applicable) to you while trotting, "you're on the wrong lead/diagonals". Hence, since the OP was asking about leads, I thought I would throw it out there.

We all know the waters of horsemanship aren't muddy enough......
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post #18 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Since a trot is a two beat gait, there are no leads.
You post on diagonals

Response to OP
ONly a lope or canter (same gait ) , has a lead as it is a three beat gait

The lead a horse is on , is recognized by the leading front leg, although the beginning of that three beat stride starts in the back, with the lead front leg making the final beat in that stride

A lead change means a horse changes either from a right lead to a left lead, or visa versa

A simple lead change has the horse breaking gait (going to a trot step or two, before picking up the opposite lead
In a flying change, there is no break of gait, and is a more advanced maneuver than a simple change
I know. However, you will hear people talking about posting on the wrong lead. And since leads was the discussion, I though I would throw it out there.

Very important to know.
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post #19 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahfromsc View Post
True dat. But if taking lessons your coach will say (if applicable) to you while trotting, "you're on the wrong lead/diagonals". Hence, since the OP was asking about leads, I thought I would throw it out there.

We all know the waters of horsemanship aren't muddy enough......
They are indeed muddy waters, but I have to say the only time I hear "wrong lead" is when I'm messing up yet another canter depart.

Messing up my posting...."wrong diagonal," or a sigh and "sit a beat"
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post #20 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Sooo much to learn! Thank you all.
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