Terminology help... - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
 25Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 10:32 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 15,433
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhefner View Post
Sooo much to learn! Thank you all.
And to quote the song " and the more I find out the less I know"

It is a lifetime of learning, and it's great, you will never reach the 'know it all' section because a horse will teach you something new
Alhefner likes this.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”
Golden Horse is offline  
post #22 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 11:51 AM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahfromsc View Post
I know. However, you will hear people talking about posting on the wrong lead. And since leads was the discussion, I though I would throw it out there.

Very important to know.

I guess people could say posting on a lead, when trotting, although I have never heard a professional use that term, as like a 'shanked snaffle', it is both confusing and misleading, and why I mentioned it

There is no lead, as that gait is a diagonal two beat gait, thus the posting on diagonals, esp when riding a circle, or on the rail, keeping weight off inside shoulder

As a funny side note, first time I took an English clinic, and the instructor said to take aright diagonal, I went across that area, and was asked as to where I was going!
Golden Horse likes this.
Smilie is offline  
post #23 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 12:01 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
To the Op
Welcome to the inexact world of horse terminology!

My favorite beef is 'shanked snaffle' as there is no such creature, and the term is an oxymoron, but is used for convenience sake, even by professionals and tack catalogs
A snaffle by definition, is anon leverage bit. Once you add shanks, regardless if mouth piece is jointed, it is a curb

Tom Thumb is another one, with many referring to any curb with ajointed mouth as being a TT
A true TT, is a curb with a jointed mouth piece BUT fixed straight up and down shanks

Stud colt
Colt alone denotes male, with a filly being a female young horse

Hackamore, which is used to mean bosal (ie non leverage bitless ), by show rules, but with many extending that term to mean mechanical hackamore, which has leverage and is not anywhere near in the same ball park, nor legal in Hackamore/snaffle bit classes, nor the same, far s starting a horse with a non leverage devise

Welcome to the inexact science or horse terminology!
Alhefner likes this.
Smilie is offline  
post #24 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 12:45 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 35,047
• Horses: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
I guess people could say posting on a lead, when trotting, although I have never heard a professional use that term, as like a 'shanked snaffle', it is both confusing and misleading, and why I mentioned it

There is no lead, as that gait is a diagonal two beat gait, thus the posting on diagonals, esp when riding a circle, or on the rail, keeping weight off inside shoulder

As a funny side note, first time I took an English clinic, and the instructor said to take aright diagonal, I went across that area, and was asked as to where I was going!
In English riding its correct to 'rise and fall on the wall' when posting at the trot around an arena or in a show ring.
The rider will often rise on the first stride - which then becomes the 'leading leg' but if that first stride/lead isn't the correct one to be rising on then you are on the 'wrong lead'
jaydee is offline  
post #25 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 01:25 PM
Started
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,710
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
To the Op
Welcome to the inexact world of horse terminology!
...
Tom Thumb is another one, with many referring to any curb with ajointed mouth as being a TT
A true TT, is a curb with a jointed mouth piece BUT fixed straight up and down shanks
...
I have a book simply called "Saddlery" written by Elwyn Hartley Edwards first published in 1963 and later reprinted by J.A. Allen of London that describes a still different use of the term Tom Thumb when referring to bitting:

"There is a further difference between thick (German or dressage) mouths often made with the port inclined a little forward, and the lighter Cambridge mouth. The length of the cheeks usually, but not always, approximates to the width of the mouthpiece. A very short cheek, not more than 8.75 cm (3 1/2 in.) overall in length is still called a Tom Thumb -- a not inappropriate description."

These bits which do not have a jointed mouth piece evidently use of the term Tom Thumb as a reference to the tiny literary character. I've never heard an explanation for why the term Tom Thumb was applied to bits more commonly referred to by this name in the U.S. currently.

Training riders and horses to work in harmony.
www.quietriding.com
www.quietriding.org
TXhorseman is offline  
post #26 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 02:47 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
In English riding its correct to 'rise and fall on the wall' when posting at the trot around an arena or in a show ring.
The rider will often rise on the first stride - which then becomes the 'leading leg' but if that first stride/lead isn't the correct one to be rising on then you are on the 'wrong lead'

You are posting on the correct diagonal, not lead, as there is no lead in a trot.
It is an even two beat diagonal gait

I have not ridden one English equitation pattern where lead was ever used in a trot, but rather diagonal, and leads were reserved for canter
I do ride both English rail classes and equitation classes, Jaydee!
You post on the correct diagonal, ie the outside one in a circle or rail, although you can be asked in an equitation pattern to change diagonals on the straight
Both of those shoulders lead, every other stride, thus no lead as in a canter
If you rise at the wrong time, you are on the wrong diagonal, not lead, and will be told in a clinic to sit and fix your diagonal
Golden Horse likes this.

Last edited by Smilie; 11-23-2015 at 02:53 PM.
Smilie is offline  
post #27 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 02:57 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Olds Alberta Canada
Posts: 12,041
• Horses: 0
perhaps some clarification on leads, versus diagonals.
Horses have leads at the canter or lope'
You have diagonals at the trot

'Diagonals are a basic riding skill for both English and Western riders. Diagonals help both horse and rider stay comfortable and balanced. Here are some frequently asked questions about diagonals and some ideas on how to master them.

What are diagonals? Your horse really doesn't have diagonals--you do, and only at the trot. At the canter, you need to learn about leads. And horses have definite leads, so it’s not as much about what the rider is doing. There’s no way to put your horse on the right diagonal. That’s something you have to master on your own. This FAQ answers the question--what are diagonals?
Are diagonals the same as leads? Why are diagonals different from leads? Does it really matter, especially if you don’t plan on ever entering a show ring? Is there a difference in how you ride the correct lead or diagonal? Learn why diagonals may be as confusing as leads at first, but aren't really the same at all.
Why is learning diagonals important? Why should you learn diagonals? There are some really good reasons for learning about diagonals, even if you don't plan to ever ride in a horse show, arena or ring. If you do, though, diagonals take on more importance than just the


Here is the entire link:

http://horses.about.com/od/learntori...gonalindex.htm
Whinnie likes this.
Smilie is offline  
post #28 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 05:19 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 35,047
• Horses: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
You are posting on the correct diagonal, not lead, as there is no lead in a trot.
It is an even two beat diagonal gait

I have not ridden one English equitation pattern where lead was ever used in a trot, but rather diagonal, and leads were reserved for canter
I do ride both English rail classes and equitation classes, Jaydee!
You post on the correct diagonal, ie the outside one in a circle or rail, although you can be asked in an equitation pattern to change diagonals on the straight
Both of those shoulders lead, every other stride, thus no lead as in a canter
If you rise at the wrong time, you are on the wrong diagonal, not lead, and will be told in a clinic to sit and fix your diagonal
You are confusing the meaning of the 'lead' in canter for the one that's often used to describe the leg that a horse lifts first when going into a trot.
If you're riding on a circle and you automatically rise on the first stride that the horse makes in trot - the 'leading' stride then its important if you want to be on the right diagonal that you recognize which leg you're posting on
jaydee is offline  
post #29 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 05:32 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 15,433
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
You are confusing the meaning of the 'lead' in canter for the one that's often used to describe the leg that a horse lifts first when going into a trot.
If you're riding on a circle and you automatically rise on the first stride that the horse makes in trot - the 'leading' stride then its important if you want to be on the right diagonal that you recognize which leg you're posting on
It's still not a lead is it though: The op was talking about leads and lead changes and that is ONLY relevant to the canter/lope, in no other pace do we worry about the horse being on the right lead.

As has been stated there is no lead from the horse when trotting, just two identical paired leg actions. Now yes it is important to recognize diagonals, and to be able to rise to the correct one, but I'm with Smilie, it is NOT a lead...

OP, welcome to the world of horse discussions, believe it or not this is us agreeing, fundamentally, but arguing over semantics, you will come across that a lot. You should see us when we disagree...

You have to remember when reading that technical terms can differ across the globe, and also across the years. Old English people like me often use different terms to say a young American or a mid aged Aussie....sometimes we have to dig deeper to understand what is being said
Whinnie likes this.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”
Golden Horse is offline  
post #30 of 35 Old 11-23-2015, 05:44 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 35,047
• Horses: 3
How you see it depends on the two different interpretations for 'lead' - in the case of trot it just means 'first'
Getting it right doesn't matter so much in trot because if you do rise on the wrong diagonal when the horse strikes off on a circle then the rider can correct themselves without changing the way the horse is going but if you were in a riding class then it looks better if you get it right first time and its actually easier.
I've often heard instructors in the UK say to 'feel' which leg the horse is leading with when it goes into trot so you go straight into it on the right diagonal and it sounds as if its something that sarahfromsc has also heard said so must be used in the US too
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Captured.JPG (20.4 KB, 9 views)
sarahfromsc likes this.
jaydee is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newsreader's terminology Saddlebag General Off Topic Discussion 7 12-24-2012 01:25 AM
advert terminology faye Jokes and Funnies 2 08-18-2012 08:05 AM
Horse Terminology: xXSerendipityXx Jokes and Funnies 0 03-31-2012 07:23 PM
Horse Terminology SouthernTrails Horse Talk 2 07-14-2010 10:37 AM
Terminology? Sheeple Horse Riding Critique 3 11-24-2009 04:35 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome