what do you all think of 'join up'? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 11-19-2014, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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what do you all think of 'join up'?

so as some may know from my previous post "in need of desperate help" I'm considering getting a parelli horse trainer to come teach me some basics about getting a good relationship with my horse.

Now i know join up isn't parelli its monty roberts but i like the idea of it.

i don't have access to a round pen just a normal arena but only one end of it as the other end is for jumping and trotting poles ect.

so how would i manage this? how do i do it?

many thanks :) xxx
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post #2 of 11 Old 11-19-2014, 07:30 PM
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If you don't know how to do it then you need to ask someone who does to come along and show you or you could end up doing more harm than good
Honest opinion - your pony is 15 and an ex. riding school horse that's used to being around people all her life and it could confuse her so much she'll loose trust in you
I'm assuming you look after her yourself on a DIY livery basis - so spend as much time with her as you can, not just riding but every day several times a day. Be the one she relies on - that's the best way to form a relationship with a horse.
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post #3 of 11 Old 11-19-2014, 07:41 PM
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I was a little confused w/ the join up. I like the Clinton Anderson gaining respect idea but it's a little more "aggressive" then I am so I'm a complete failure at it. I haven't paid a lot of attention to Parellis version of it but I have found some of their version of techniques that do work for me.

personally, I think John Lyons is probably the one that is more my speed. The Clinton Anderson stuff really really works and I'm very impressed by it but I'm a quieter slower paced person, so I've been doing a little more John Lyons stuff lately.

"Be a best friend, tell the truth, and overuse I love you
Go to work, do your best, don't outsmart your common sense
Never let your prayin knees get lazy
And love like crazy"
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post #4 of 11 Old 11-19-2014, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Okay thanks for your advice both of you! :)
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post #5 of 11 Old 11-19-2014, 08:19 PM
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There are so many variations of join up and what people want to accomplish with it. Many people are after it to gain trust with their horse and get the horse following them around, which is NOT what I think it should be used for. It also should not have the horse running around a ton either.

Out of the big name clinicians, I like Warwick Schiller the best and how he uses the round pen, the term he uses is "hooking on". Hooking on is all about the big picture and you teach your horse so much with it. However, you need to know what you're doing or you'll screw up a horse.

Hooking on teaching the horse to move off of pressure and to accept it without throwing a fit. It teaches a pushy horse how to stay out of your space and a nervous horse how to accept you without having a panic attack. It teaches a horse to read your body language. It teaches a horse to disengage their hindquarters. It teaches a horse to look for you for direction. It teaches a horse to start to think things through, where there is pressure and where there is release. Lastly, it will get the horse to follow you. When I teach a horse to hook on, they rarely even break out in a sweat, it should be used to get to the mind of the horse.

It's the most important tool in my toolbox, but there is much more to my groundwork than that.
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post #6 of 11 Old 11-19-2014, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BreakableRider View Post
There are so many variations of join up and what people want to accomplish with it. Many people are after it to gain trust with their horse and get the horse following them around, which is NOT what I think it should be used for. It also should not have the horse running around a ton either.

Out of the big name clinicians, I like Warwick Schiller the best and how he uses the round pen, the term he uses is "hooking on". Hooking on is all about the big picture and you teach your horse so much with it. However, you need to know what you're doing or you'll screw up a horse.

Hooking on teaching the horse to move off of pressure and to accept it without throwing a fit. It teaches a pushy horse how to stay out of your space and a nervous horse how to accept you without having a panic attack. It teaches a horse to read your body language. It teaches a horse to disengage their hindquarters. It teaches a horse to look for you for direction. It teaches a horse to start to think things through, where there is pressure and where there is release. Lastly, it will get the horse to follow you. When I teach a horse to hook on, they rarely even break out in a sweat, it should be used to get to the mind of the horse.

It's the most important tool in my toolbox, but there is much more to my groundwork than that.

Although every word she says is true, it won't ruin your horse to play around at it. and, though it's best to have someone show you , you CAN learn a lot from videos and stumbling around on your own.

if your horse is already disprespectful and pushy, then doing it incorrectly will just confirm to the hrose that you are someone he can lean on and push on, so, there is that possibility. But, if you take some direction and are firm in what you ask, your results might not be 'pretty or perfect' but aren't likely to "ruin" your horse, either.
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post #7 of 11 Old 11-19-2014, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
Although every word she says is true, it won't ruin your horse to play around at it. and, though it's best to have someone show you , you CAN learn a lot from videos and stumbling around on your own.

if your horse is already disprespectful and pushy, then doing it incorrectly will just confirm to the hrose that you are someone he can lean on and push on, so, there is that possibility. But, if you take some direction and are firm in what you ask, your results might not be 'pretty or perfect' but aren't likely to "ruin" your horse, either.
I respectfully disagree, I've had horses come into training because owners have successfully taught their horse to practically attack them in the round pen because they didn't know how to teach a horse anything.

It starts off small enough, maybe the handler is nagging with pressure and the horse pins an ear about it or the handler takes steps backwards instead of forwards. This escalates to maybe the horse pinning their ears and shaking their head at the handler, then kicking in that direction, then charging etc.

One such horse came in after breaking her owners collar bone, this horse had been inadvertently rewarded and had pressure released at all the wrong times till this horse charged her owner and bit her collar bone, breaking it. You could no longer get NEAR this horse on the ground without her trying to run you out of the pen. I had to work this mare from horseback for a solid week, doing everything. I pushed her into the round pen, did my round pen work, haltered her, etc. Honestly, this mare could have killed someone with the state she was in. By the end of 60 days, she was pretty much back to what the owner said she was before she tried to join up. However, to get her to this point was a lot of work with both her and the owner. The owner was the biggest problem, she was terrified of her horse and it took a lot of lessons, first with my horses to gain confidence and experience and then her own before she could safely handle her horse.

Is this kind of thing a common occurrence? Of course not, but this type of thing does happen when owners don't know what they are doing.
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post #8 of 11 Old 11-20-2014, 12:29 AM
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true, but someone giving join up a try once or twice is not going to create a monster like that. I agree that people should get direction for free working, but I also don't think they are going to "break" the horse, nor create the problem you are talking about by giving a couple of tries.

your specific advice will help, and videos. If the horse is particularly aggressive or dominant, and she is trying to "fix" it, well then that is clearly a mistake to try and do by roundpennign by a total novice.
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post #9 of 11 Old 11-20-2014, 12:56 AM
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I agree with you there, the average owner and average horse aren't going to run into any major problems by trying it a few times. It's just when people keep stubbornly trying and ending on a bad note that things escalate to that point.

Olivia, without a with only an arena to work in, you don't really have the set up to try hooking on/ join up, or whatever you want to call it if you aren't creative. Now if you are, ask if you can move the jumps around and make a temporary fence with them and mark off about the same size as a round pen. In order to do hooking on, you need to be able to apply pressure to your horse, if you're in too large of an area you won't be doing much good.

If you can get that trainer out, great. Get a few lessons with her and absorb all the knowledge you can, even video it so you can go back and review what she was teaching. Then you can also use videos on the internet to help you out as well. From there, video yourself and people here can critique and help you out.

It isn't something i'm particularly comfortable explaining without you having any base of knowledge, your body position is everything and things are easy to misinterpret online.
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post #10 of 11 Old 11-20-2014, 04:49 AM
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^Agree with both of you. Tiny, your first post prompted me to think that yes, I think we do sort of forget those details sometimes, those of us who have seen & worked with horses that have been 'messed up'. Just like 'do it yourself' hoofcare, jumping in when you don't know what you're doing can have some pretty bad results. So, as I keep harping on... educating ourselves *before* 'jumping in', as best we can is vital, to minimise/avoid bad mistakes, and there is no substitute for good, hands-on instruction.
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