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post #21 of 41 Old 08-10-2017, 02:13 PM
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So some places in the world are 100 years behind Europe and North America in their treatment of animals, yah that's not news. Doesn't make it right.

I have no interest in trying to understand people that don't respect animals. I will never like them and never want to be around them. They are not my kind of people and honestly don't deserve my time, attention, or respect. I feel bad for the poor animals that are subjected to interactions with them.
No of course it doesn't make it right, but unless we do interact and gently point out a better way, step by step how do you expect people to change? It took some enlightened people to convince our countries to stop some practices, and frankly I was totally shocked to find that de clawing of cats, and docking of horses happens on this side of the Atlantic....both barbaric to me......because we don't have that in the UK.

I do not agree with what I see in the video, but it is only by trying to understand can we possibly hope to bring about positive change.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”

Last edited by loosie; 08-19-2017 at 08:08 PM.
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post #22 of 41 Old 08-10-2017, 02:37 PM
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No of course it doesn't make it right, but unless we do interact and gently point out a better way, step by step how do you expect people to change? It took some enlightened people to convince our countries to stop some practices, and frankly I was totally shocked to find that de clawing of cats, and docking of horses happens on this side of the Atlantic....both barbaric to me......because we don't have that in the UK.

I do not agree with what I see in the video, but it is only by trying to understand can we possibly hope to bring about positive change.
It truly is a mental block for me. I can't even try to "see their side", I don't want to, I can't handle them. I am heavily involved in animal rescue and over the years I have become calloused towards animal abusers. They are the worst people on earth to me. I am full blown crazy vegetarian, wont eat at a million places because of animal rights violations, and only buy and consume responsibly sourced animal by-products (eggs, milk, cheese). I am definitely not the person to reach out to people mistreating animals, but I am one of the ones taking care of the animals they mistreat.

Maybe some of them aren't evil, but are just ignorant or stupid. I think it is common sense that hanging on a horses mouth is not pleasant for it. And it's basic human decency to not harass another living thing. I get that some people will try to defend them, and I respect that. But it's my opinion that this is a basic thing, like murder, we should just KNOW it is bad and not do it.

Also I love animals more than people, seriously if I had to choose between saving that guy or that horse, the horse would be named Stormy and since Bella's tack color is teal Stormy would be orange, very Caribbean!

So yah, I'm crazy when it comes to animals and I know it.
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post #23 of 41 Old 08-10-2017, 02:46 PM
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It truly is a mental block for me. I can't even try to "see their side", I don't want to, I can't handle them. I am heavily involved in animal rescue and over the years I have become calloused towards animal abusers. They are the worst people on earth to me. I am full blown crazy vegetarian, wont eat at a million places because of animal rights violations, and only buy and consume responsibly sourced animal by-products (eggs, milk, cheese). I am definitely not the person to reach out to people mistreating animals, but I am one of the ones taking care of the animals they mistreat.

Maybe some of them aren't evil, but are just ignorant or stupid. I think it is common sense that hanging on a horses mouth is not pleasant for it. And it's basic human decency to not harass another living thing. I get that some people will try to defend them, and I respect that. But it's my opinion that this is a basic thing, like murder, we should just KNOW it is bad and not do it.

Also I love animals more than people, seriously if I had to choose between saving that guy or that horse, the horse would be named Stormy and since Bella's tack color is teal Stormy would be orange, very Caribbean!

So yah, I'm crazy when it comes to animals and I know it.
Crazy is good, we need crazy and passionate.....I'm sure Anna Sewell and others were called 'tree hugging softies' or whatever the insults were at the time.

Defending bad practice is not what it is about, but understanding cultural differences and attitudes towards animals is the first step to making changes. I guess I go back to the days when people kept slaves, they really did not understand how bad that was, and they did not think if the treatment handed out as cruel and horrific. When you are born into a society that believes something it is very hard to see the world any other way. This is why we have to reach out and try and educate, and try and understand why things happen. This is the way we change things, but it is a long process.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”
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post #24 of 41 Old 08-10-2017, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SamanthaApp View Post
It truly is a mental block for me. I can't even try to "see their side", I don't want to, I can't handle them. I am heavily involved in animal rescue and over the years I have become calloused towards animal abusers. They are the worst people on earth to me. I am full blown crazy vegetarian, wont eat at a million places because of animal rights violations, and only buy and consume responsibly sourced animal by-products (eggs, milk, cheese). I am definitely not the person to reach out to people mistreating animals, but I am one of the ones taking care of the animals they mistreat.

Maybe some of them aren't evil, but are just ignorant or stupid. I think it is common sense that hanging on a horses mouth is not pleasant for it. And it's basic human decency to not harass another living thing. I get that some people will try to defend them, and I respect that. But it's my opinion that this is a basic thing, like murder, we should just KNOW it is bad and not do it.

Also I love animals more than people, seriously if I had to choose between saving that guy or that horse, the horse would be named Stormy and since Bella's tack color is teal Stormy would be orange, very Caribbean!

So yah, I'm crazy when it comes to animals and I know it.
You've found your niche. For myself, I can say that my life is richer for having traveled, and interacted with horse folks in several parts of the world. The U.S., Mexico, Europe, the Middle East, and now, Asia. Believe me when I tell you that you will have no impact on the lives of those animals with harsh criticism of the people and cultures who use them. Respect and communication are the only things that have an impact.

You say other places are 100 years behind in animal treatment. I say less than 100 years separates us. I will stick with respect and communication. Osama is participating in a communications forum with worldwide reach. Respectful, and practical advice will go a long way.

Again, I hope that helps some.
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post #25 of 41 Old 08-11-2017, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SamanthaApp View Post
It truly is a mental block for me. I can't even try to "see their side", I don't want to, I can't handle them. I am heavily involved in animal rescue and over the years I have become calloused towards animal abusers. They are the worst people on earth to me. ...
Maybe some of them aren't evil, but are just ignorant or stupid. I think it is common sense that hanging on a horses mouth is not pleasant for it. ... we should just KNOW it is bad and not do it.
Yup, each to his own & I personally couldn't NOT say anything when I saw the vid. But I believe the vast majority of people(of course there are some sickos) are 'cruel' or 'negligent' with animals NOT at all because they're 'evil' but because they simply know no better. Which doesn't in the least equal 'stupid'. None of us can learn better without someone to teach us. We can all only do our best with the knowledge we have at the time.

In not even trying to treat people the way you would like to be treated when you were 'stupid or ignorant' about something other people call 'common sense'(because I'm pretty sure there are things other people would think you're stupid not to know) means that you're not likely to be able to get through to those people & therefore it's not helping their animals either. And on that note, I do think it's best for all concerned(including the animal), if people with this kind of 'mental block' refrain from making derogatory judgements at people. Or if you do want to attempt to make a difference for the animals in that society, break down the 'block' & learn more about them, so you can show them better ways, respectfully.
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post #26 of 41 Old 08-11-2017, 10:58 AM
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Believe me when I tell you that you will have no impact on the lives of those animals with harsh criticism of the people and cultures who use them. .
The 50+ animals I have personally saved from death (I foster bottle baby kittens in addition to cats and dogs) beg to differ. Unless you mean *those* as in that specific horse. Which, hate to tell you sweetie, you're not helping either. OP hasn't been back. I have no interest in connecting with those people. You go for it if that's your thing! But you are NOT better than me because you choose to "meet them where they are at". So stop with the sanctimonious lecturing, and keep your help. I don't need it.

Last edited by loosie; 08-19-2017 at 08:15 PM. Reason: editing out rudeness
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post #27 of 41 Old 08-11-2017, 11:06 AM
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Yup, each to his own & I personally couldn't NOT say anything when I saw the vid. But I believe the vast majority of people(of course there are some sickos) are 'cruel' or 'negligent' with animals NOT at all because they're 'evil' but because they simply know no better. Which doesn't in the least equal 'stupid'. None of us can learn better without someone to teach us. We can all only do our best with the knowledge we have at the time.

In not even trying to treat people the way you would like to be treated when you were 'stupid or ignorant' about something other people call 'common sense'(because I'm pretty sure there are things other people would think you're stupid not to know) means that you're not likely to be able to get through to those people & therefore it's not helping their animals either. And on that note, I do think it's best for all concerned(including the animal), if people with this kind of 'mental block' refrain from making derogatory judgements at people. Or if you do want to attempt to make a difference for the animals in that society, break down the 'block' & learn more about them, so you can show them better ways, respectfully.
Guys, no one is helping that horse, the OP hasn't been back. You all can bring the compassion by the truck load, I'm going to stick with my tough love. This "block" is what allows me to take in near death animals, and unfortunately lose some, and NOT go murder the people who did that to them. I am going to keep saving actual lives, and not worrying about some anonymous guy on the internet who probably won't ever see this conversation.

This is kind of ironic that you all think you're better than me because I think I'm better than people that mistreat animals

I'm not mad, I actually really like this forum, but you and Cowboy should maybe extend the same compassion for me you are expecting me to bring to others. I am in the trenches, I have seen stuff that has made me throw up and cry at the same time. At the hands of man. People are the scum of the earth, we are cruel, stupid, and greedy. So if I want to sound off on an online forum on a thread where the OP is MAI, what harm is it doing? Seriously. A lot less than that rider inflected on that horse during that ride.

Last edited by loosie; 08-19-2017 at 08:19 PM.
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post #28 of 41 Old 08-11-2017, 11:17 AM
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Crazy is good, we need crazy and passionate.....I'm sure Anna Sewell and others were called 'tree hugging softies' or whatever the insults were at the time.

Defending bad practice is not what it is about, but understanding cultural differences and attitudes towards animals is the first step to making changes. I guess I go back to the days when people kept slaves, they really did not understand how bad that was, and they did not think if the treatment handed out as cruel and horrific. When you are born into a society that believes something it is very hard to see the world any other way. This is why we have to reach out and try and educate, and try and understand why things happen. This is the way we change things, but it is a long process.
Do you think people trying to connect with slave owner is what ended slavery? Because I thought it was the civil war. So maybe attacking evil is more effective than empathizing with it?

Just a thought...

Did negotiating with Hitler end the holocaust? I thought it was WWII... the list goes on. The point is people doing evil things normally don't change their mind because of kind discourse, they normally get forced to change kicking and screaming by war, protest, and legal reform. I don't think you being nice is going to change the lives of those animals any more than me being "mean". Those people don't care what we think! OP has never been back and the guy in the video has no clue about this conversation.
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post #29 of 41 Old 08-11-2017, 11:33 AM
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I should have know this wasn't the place for me after a post I made got edited because I called a man who punched a horse in the face repeatedly a "monster" :o

Guess I'm off to find a new forum with animal loving, people hating crazies like me!

Happy riding y'all!

Last edited by tinyliny; 08-11-2017 at 12:56 PM. Reason: removed mild profanity
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post #30 of 41 Old 08-11-2017, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SamanthaApp View Post
Do you think people trying to connect with slave owner is what ended slavery? Because I thought it was the civil war. So maybe attacking evil is more effective than empathizing with it?

Just a thought...

Did negotiating with Hitler end the holocaust? I thought it was WWII... the list goes on. The point is people doing evil things normally don't change their mind because of kind discourse, they normally get forced to change kicking and screaming by war, protest, and legal reform. I don't think you being nice is going to change the lives of those animals any more than me being "mean". Those people don't care what we think! OP has never been back and the guy in the video has no clue about this conversation.
Change comes from people becoming aware that there is an issue, and working to change that.....the civil war was a lot more complicated than simply about slavery, but still it required people changing their thoughts, growing up becoming enlightened. WW2 is in no way comparable, that was madman, not 100's of years of tradition and culture to overcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamanthaApp View Post
I should have know this wasn't the place for me after a post I made got edited because I called a man who punched a horse in the face repeatedly a "monster" :o

Guess I'm off to find a new forum with animal loving, people hating crazies like me!

Happy riding y'all!
I wish you all kinds of luck, but you will struggle to change the world with that attitude....you have fire and passion, but when the going gets a little tough you pack up and move? See this sums it up nicely.....you want to REALLY change things, instead of having online squabbles, you have to work with people and educate.....Standing on some supposed moral high ground because we are fortunate enough to live in part of the world where food is plentiful so we get to choose what we eat, where we are affluent enough to keep animals as companions and pets, rather than working animals, where we treat those animals better than we treat a lot of people, will not bring about the change you are seeking.

Education, financial aid, practical hands on help, understanding why, and moving things in the right direction, this is what makes change.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity”

Last edited by tinyliny; 08-11-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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