The "X" Factor(s) in Horse Buying - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 32 Old 09-25-2015, 09:16 PM
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Any horse will do a 180 if the humans ruin it, either by spoiling.."oh he just loves sweet feed" or by not being the one running the show "oh Fred just doesn't like being ridden, wearing that bridle, going down that road, getting in that trailer, gets so impatient at feeding time" or any variation between the two.

You have to have a good sense about horses, to be able to look behind what a human is doing to cause the problem, and if horse is basically a decent animal.

And that is why looking at the conformation of the horse and paying particular attention to the head/face is important. And knowing the bloodlines, if a registered horse, will help a lot too.

Horses make me a better person.
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-25-2015, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoore View Post
I know a lot of people say never to go to horse brokers/dealers, but I had a good experience with one. She had a good reputation, had a couple of horses for me to try, and I knew she had taken Mocha back from an unsatisfied buyer and given them their money back. If anything, she overstated her bad points and stressed that she needed an experienced rider who wouldn't let her push her around. I think if you can find a dealer like this it can be a good idea.
I no longer sell to the general public. I put my sale horses with a trainer/dealer who will keep them in shape and show them to people and match them up. I only get involved when it comes down to the money, and that's only to ok or reject an offer that's not full price, or if the person wants terms, I get personally involved. It's been a HUGE relief for me.
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post #13 of 32 Old 09-25-2015, 09:28 PM
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i like this thread!
i think horses are definately influenced by there rider/owner, environment, and tack fitting. me and the current owner of this one horse i want to look at were actually kind of just talking about this. the saddle that was being used on the horse did not fit her correctly and caused her a little bit of pain, it would cause the horse to go around with an extremely high head set and just look uncomfortable. she got the saddle issue taken care of and now when the saddle is put on the horse still gets a bit of a higher head and is a little nervous that its still going to hurt her.
another saddle fitting story..there was a horse my friend used to have, when he was ridden in there saddle, he would be noticeably a little uncomfortable and started refusing jumps. when they put a different, better fitting saddle on him, he would go around perfectly and jump everything infront of him.

as far as owner/rider goes.. this is also a good point. i think some horses can get a little nervous or act differently with different owners and riders. this place i used to work at had this lesson pony, he was used for the kids that had a little more experience, only for walk/trot. he was veryy fast and forward and would do as he pleased when you were on him or on the ground. the owner did not tell me any of this when i first got on him, but he was an angel for me. he liked me on the ground and in the saddle for some reason. i think it was partially because i was not afraid and i knew how to properly disipline him, i would not allow him to walk all over me like he was alloud to do with the lesson kids.

in some cases i almost feel like its "destiny" i know that sounds a little cheesy, but when its right, its right and when its wrong, its wrong. you just have to trust your instinct and experience and see where it takes you. also always look at reasonable horses, you should get what you want. if you want like a dead broke quarter horse to just walk around the trails with, then thats what you get, not a high strung ottb that is perfect in the jumper ring. if you want a horse to excel with, then thats what you get. its okay to be picky..you should be. your planning on having this horse for maybe the next 20+ years! get what you want the first time around, it saves a lot of time, money, and mental stability for both you and the horse😁
my friend for example.. she does hunters. her horse is an awesome 3'3 horse, but is content doing any height. she bought him when she was just moving up to 2'6. she bought him knowing that she wanted to move up to at least 3 foot and he is the horse that can take her there. super quiet, will do whatever height she wants. she knows that they can continue doing 2'6 for the rest of his life, but when shes ready, he can definately move up and take care of her while doing so.

so the last one i didnt discuss is environment. this is 100% true. im having the biggest issue with this right now. i ride this horse for one of the boarders at my barn and he was used to doing absolutely nothing, walk and jog around for like 20 minutes and that was it. he didnt respond to your leg and never really cantered with someone on his back. now that ive been riding him we have been doing a lot more and he is now pretty spooky and always seems kind of paranoid. it just depends on what there used to doing and how they were and are being treated. i think a big part of it too is what there used to there routine being - times they get fed, go outside or is stalled, even riding times or what all goes on while there being ridden (do they walk one circle, trot for a little, canter, then jump a few jumps - or is it switched around a little? do they work on different things when there ridden? or on the ground?) i rode this horse a few times that would try to tell me when it was time to trot and canter and when it was time to be done doing these things, and when the ride was over, because thats the way he was always ridden, its what he was used to.

im kind of in the same boat as you right now too, im looking at purchasing my first horse, but im paranoid that everything is going to go wrong that could. i feel like the horse is going to hate me and try to take advantage of me. i just hope that the horse and i are a good match. im afraid that the horse is going to be too much for me, on the ground and/or in the saddle. i guess sometimes its all part of the process though, right? either you make it through the difficult times, or you dont and you move on. no matter what, whatever happends is supposed to happen and something better will come in the future.

sorry this was super long and i kinda rambled on a little bit😳
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post #14 of 32 Old 09-25-2015, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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From what I've seen in my short time back in the horse world, it seems a person's demeanor or...I don't know, presence? has strong influence in a horse's behavior.

The young mare I mentioned earlier from my previous barn was always uneasy and spooky with the BO. After her spook at the trees, the BO led her around the arena shushing her and trying to reassure her in a sweet, quiet voice that everything was okay. We spent 30 min of my lesson doing this while I sat on her back.

A couple weeks later, same horse, different trainer. This woman is AWESOME and has been working with horses over 30 years. I hadn't even mounted yet when gunfire went off in the woods. The horse spooked and started to run into her. I was prepared to jump out of the way, but not Ms. J! She gave that lead rope 2 hard yanks and gave her 3 hard pops on the shoulder and said, "Don't you EVER run into me like that!!" I never saw a horse come to her senses so quickly! The gunshots were no longer an issue. The 5'2 woman standing in front of her had taken precedence! She lunged her after that and worked all the fear out of her and brought the mare's focus on her and her only. I was in awe the whole time. When I got in the saddle that day, there was no spook in that horse because Ms. J had things under control! Lol.
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post #15 of 32 Old 09-25-2015, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tihannah View Post
From what I've seen in my short time back in the horse world, it seems a person's demeanor or...I don't know, presence? has strong influence in a horse's behavior.

The young mare I mentioned earlier from my previous barn was always uneasy and spooky with the BO. After her spook at the trees, the BO led her around the arena shushing her and trying to reassure her in a sweet, quiet voice that everything was okay. We spent 30 min of my lesson doing this while I sat on her back.

A couple weeks later, same horse, different trainer. This woman is AWESOME and has been working with horses over 30 years. I hadn't even mounted yet when gunfire went off in the woods. The horse spooked and started to run into her. I was prepared to jump out of the way, but not Ms. J! She gave that lead rope 2 hard yanks and gave her 3 hard pops on the shoulder and said, "Don't you EVER run into me like that!!" I never saw a horse come to her senses so quickly! The gunshots were no longer an issue. The 5'2 woman standing in front of her had taken precedence! She lunged her after that and worked all the fear out of her and brought the mare's focus on her and her only. I was in awe the whole time. When I got in the saddle that day, there was no spook in that horse because Ms. J had things under control! Lol.
That's the kind of trainer you want, that can teach you how to get control, stay in control and regain control when the horse tries to lose it.
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post #16 of 32 Old 09-26-2015, 03:03 AM
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My answer to 'what horse would I be getting' is 'the horse you allow it to be'

All to often people think that because they can ride and have perhaps done a little jumping, they are ready to have their own horse.

As Cherie says, "The worse behaviour you allow is the best behaviour you can expect."

I say, "Stop the little things and the big things rarely happen."

I couldn't tell you how many horses I have sold over the years, I would always take a horse back should it be a misfit. Majority of the time it took a matter of minutes to sort out any problems, the horse knew from my attitude that it was not going to get away with whatever.

I sold a very good jumping pony to a woman who I would have said was experienced. I gave a full warranty with the pony. She called me later to say that she couldn't clip him, he wouldn't allow the clippers near him.

I had never had any problems.

I went over, he was tied in a stable. I started the clippers and he climbed the wall. I bent down and picked up the twitch (made from a broken pitchfork handle) walked towards him and whacked him hard twice, on his quarters. Picked up the clippers and clipped him, most of the time he was loose with the rope just thrown over his neck.

I knew he wasn't frightened but taking the Micky. Once he realised I had seen through him he was on best behaviour.

Dealers/brokers gain their reputation through the bad horses they sell, never the good ones. A good dealer will always take a horse back and swap it with another. You will not get the full money you originally paid because chances are it is you that messed the animal up and it will need retraining.

Unless I know someone really well, I will never allow a horse to go out for a trial period. They can come and try as many times as they like, within reason, and that is it.
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post #17 of 32 Old 09-26-2015, 08:35 AM
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I am only a first time horse owner so hope you don't mind me weighing in.
I don't have a really nice story like Wallaby, but here is my story. My horse is a 16.2 TB who was underweight when I first got him. Let me tell you that this was not what I wanted in a first horse, I was looking for a QH or a nice stock horse but he basically came for free and my friend who has 16yrs of experience said she would help me (she left for 2 months and left me to figure everything out for myself). Don't get me wrong like everyone says green + green = black and blue but I was lucky as I found myself an instructor and once we got going I had the confidence to do anything with him.
Now to answer your questions!

How much of a horse's behavior and actions is influenced by rider/owner, environment, tack fitting?

Owner/rider influence: As his rider and owner I found myself realizing how much I influence him by not asking clearly enough and how confused he gets if I don't know exactly what I want. When learning to canter I didn't understand how to ask him and he got extremely frustrated so we just went back to basics and back to something he knew.

Environment: Being starved made him extremely crappy at other horses, even when they just stare right at his food or watch him eat. He has gotten better but he used to wait until I wasn't looking and have a go at horses over the fence. I have no doubt before this he was a sweetheart with other horses as I spoke to the previous previous owner and his racehorse trainer.

Tack fitting: I think that is pretty obvious, good tack makes it better for yourself and also your horse.

The one thing though that I have always had with him was that I never ever felt scared or unsafe on him no matter what. My partner who is not horsey trusts him 100% with me which is a first for him.

I made the mistake of getting a horse way to early because someone else wanted me to and I do regret it but what I don't regret is getting Roy.
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-26-2015, 09:23 AM
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I'm with Wallaby on the gut instinct feeling. When I buy a horse, I have to have my heart go "zing". I have to feel like I will die if I don't get that horse.

I got my first horse for my 12th birthday. I looked at perhaps 20 horses but none of them were quite right. Then the 21st horse was brought out for me to try, and within 20 seconds I knew she was THE ONE. And she was amazing--always--she took such good care of me in hundreds of ways.

After that, whenever I had to buy a horse, I waited for that ZING. Back in those long long ago days, people didn't get vet checks--or at least the people I knew didn't. I have never gotten a vet check on a horse I have bought and so far, I have never been wrong. (To be fair, I almost always buy babies and keep them until they die, so vet checks are not so important)

Many years later, I was looking for a colt or filly to train and horses on the internet were just starting to be popular. I wondered if I could get that feeling from a picture. I looked at piles of pictures from the internet, but when I saw Chorro's little colty photo, I knew he was THE ONE.

I don't know if my instincts are stronger than other people's (my instincts SUCK when it comes to men), but I would never buy a horse unless my mind and heart didn't explode with the feeling that this horse was meant to be MINE.
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post #19 of 32 Old 09-26-2015, 12:14 PM
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"When I buy a horse, I have to have my heart go "zing". I have to feel like I will die if I don't get that horse.*"

Yeah but that feeling with out the logical reasons to accompany it is a dangerous thing, especially if you don't have the time or funds to fix potential issues. I had a friend who fell in love with a gelding, thought that the buyer was a reputable horse person and bought the horse. Turned out he was older and shorter than promised and at some point had received some terrible barrel training. He also had attitude issues. The rider had many issues with this horse but loved him through it all. He threw her several times. In the end he died of cancer. I don't wish any person the unfortunate experience of my friend.

If the horse checks all the boxes and is well suited personality wise, some times love follows that. My arab was not love at first sight. It wasn't until we were fearlessly cantering down a twisty trail that I realized she was exactly what I was looking for all along.
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post #20 of 32 Old 09-26-2015, 01:02 PM
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Heart going zing is not a good thing and shows inexperience!

Yes, you do want a connection but not just on a look.

Living on the Island at the time I was looking for a pony for a client. We looked at many. She wanted the first few we saw which were all unsuitable. She began to learn about what to look for and I remember walking into a yard to look at a pony and she said to me - if it's that one there, I don't want it!
It was and we didn't even bother to ride it.

We had been looking for some months. We went to a dealer friend of mine and whilst I was trying some horses, she went around looking.

With great excitement she came back saying she had found a really nice pony.
She had but he had come over from Eire and had strangles. He was out in a field with other infected horses, he looked really miserable. The abscesses hadn't burst, he was running a fever, stood away from the others just looking miserable.

I immediately saw what she had seen under the winter coat, mud and misery.

I bought him on the spot, very cheaply I might add and with no vet certification.

He came home, was chucked out in a field with three others from the same place and brought into work some eight weeks later.

One of the best buys, she did really well with him winning a lot jumping and showing. Kept him for four years until he was outgrown. Sold him for ten times what we paid.

After looking at many horses this girl had learned a lot and when she found this pony I was so proud as I knew it wasn't a sympathy reaction.

Her heart never went zing, but she could see potential.

Even if I am buying for a client I have to lik a horse. I have an instinct I was born with the can usually assess what sort of character a horse has and I have learned to go with that instinct.
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