Help! Looking for good APHA Stallion - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 21 Old 02-08-2020, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
Adding: I'd be looking for a stallion with a wildly different color than black. Your odds of getting multiple shots at color go up if you throw in something crazy, like say, a buckskin frame overo stallion with unknown modifiers.
What do you mean by multiple shots at color? Like buckskin vs black or something? And unknown modifiers? I love a black, I'm totally fine with a black based foal but the cream dilutes are fun too. If I could find a stud that matches all my other criteria I wouldn't care if it was a bay or chestnut base though.

Thanks for the link to Osage, im really having trouble finding other options and I hadn't come across him before. I'm not in love with his conformation and I don't think he'd complement my mare very well unfortunately. Did I mention I'm picky? Lol if you know of any others keep the names coming!
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissa Booher View Post
What do you mean by multiple shots at color? Like buckskin vs black or something? And unknown modifiers? I love a black, I'm totally fine with a black based foal but the cream dilutes are fun too. If I could find a stud that matches all my other criteria I wouldn't care if it was a bay or chestnut base though.

Thanks for the link to Osage, im really having trouble finding other options and I hadn't come across him before. I'm not in love with his conformation and I don't think he'd complement my mare very well unfortunately. Did I mention I'm picky? Lol if you know of any others keep the names coming!
When most people are talking about adding color to their breeding program, they mean breeding for color... which means they want something more rare than black or bay or sorrel. So if you're wanting to 'add color' to your breeding and your foals, someone like me assumes you want more than a 50/50 chance of black or black and white, and no chance at any other color than black.

By saying multiple shots at color, I mean more variety of possible colors and paint patterns. By unknown modifiers, since you don't know at this time what modifiers the stallion you choose may have, I didn't even guess at modifiers. The site asks you to check off any known modifiers, or if you don't know, there's an 'unknown modifier' option.

If all you want is basic black or are happy with a coin toss for solid black or black and white, then go for a homozygous black stallion.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #13 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 05:26 PM
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In the world of Paints color = white.

R.I.P. JC 5/19/85 - 12/9/14. You made my life better.
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post #14 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 06:52 PM
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Interesting. I've never heard anyone refer to white as color when wanting to breed for color or add color to a breeding program. They are always talking about wanting a variety of colors.

Huh. Must investigate further.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 07:10 PM
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I'll be darn. It appears it's a local thing. Keep in mind... people call ANY painted horses here a paint... even when they're a pinto Mustang or Spotted Saddle Horse.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 07:50 PM
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Now that I'm the big dummy, and I apologize for the misunderstanding OP - you still only have a 50/50 chance if you breed to a Frame Overo. If you're absolutely for sure wanting guaranteed color with no chance of a solid foal... and this time I mean white by color... my sources tell me you want a black homozygous tobiano. Calculator confirms it's 100% chance of a tobiano.

Not as flashy as a frame overo, but if you're wanting the guarantee and for sure black and white, that's what you want to look for.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
When most people are talking about adding color to their breeding program, they mean breeding for color... which means they want something more rare than black or bay or sorrel. So if you're wanting to 'add color' to your breeding and your foals, someone like me assumes you want more than a 50/50 chance of black or black and white, and no chance at any other color than black.

By saying multiple shots at color, I mean more variety of possible colors and paint patterns. By unknown modifiers, since you don't know at this time what modifiers the stallion you choose may have, I didn't even guess at modifiers. The site asks you to check off any known modifiers, or if you don't know, there's an 'unknown modifier' option.

If all you want is basic black or are happy with a coin toss for solid black or black and white, then go for a homozygous black stallion.
Lol its its Okay, I get what you were saying now. I meant white patterns, cream or dun or whatever would be a bonus but I'm really after the white. Tobiano, splash or frame, maybe Sabino. What I meant in the original post was I was looking for a HZ tobiano or splash but I'd make an exception for the right Frame Overo because I love the look even though it's a 50/50 chance but it would still have to be an awesome stud I'm not going to breed to a mediocre stud just to get the color I like. I want the breeding, conformation and some sort of record plus the color, it's hard to find.
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Last edited by Alissa Booher; 02-09-2020 at 08:02 PM.
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Here's what I've found so far...

I got all excited because I found this frame stallion (http://www.flyingpranch.com/littlehawkpics.html) who looked like he is built pretty nice and his foals are gorgeous but I watched a video of him showing and I was disappointed lol he looks like a good boy but he doesn't look very athletic to me 😕 darn

I like QTs Cajun Cub a lot but hes not homozygous, hes splash and tobiano

Ima Dirty white boy is a son of Peptoboonsmal! He was never shown due to an eye injury and is heterozygous but I'd get either a roan or a tobiano so that's something I guess but if I'm being picky again, I dont love his back end.

Gay Bar Lucky Jac is HZ tobiano so from a color standpoint hes my best option and he has an impressive record

Then theres a nice splash1, 2 (not HZ for either)local stallion. Shootin for Chicks, Hes a spooks gotta gun horse. I really like the look of him but were back to the color issue 🤦‍♀️

And the last one on my radar is SHR QTs DiamondCutter. Hes buckskin tobiano EEAaCRcrTT he seems to have a great temperament and hes cute! He just seems light boned and theres something about his backend that I am not loving but overall a nice stud

Opinions? I keep coming back to these 5 but I'd love other options, I know they're out there...
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post #19 of 21 Old 02-10-2020, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
Now that I'm the big dummy, and I apologize for the misunderstanding OP - you still only have a 50/50 chance if you breed to a Frame Overo. If you're absolutely for sure wanting guaranteed color with no chance of a solid foal... and this time I mean white by color... my sources tell me you want a black homozygous tobiano. Calculator confirms it's 100% chance of a tobiano.

Not as flashy as a frame overo, but if you're wanting the guarantee and for sure black and white, that's what you want to look for.
You are not a big dummy. LOL

@Alissa Booher , I would stick with your original plan to find a TO/TO. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack to find a good one but you eventually will. I bred my QH mare to a tovero which was supposed to give you a 75 - 80% chance of getting color (been a long time since I got out of the breeding business and don't keep up with things so those percentages may not be accurate today). Got a solid bay colt. Only solid foal that stallion had sired up to that point and I don't know about since.

A good place to look at stallions is at a big show or an event like Equine Affaire if they have something like that in your area. Of course I'm a bit old fashioned when it comes for shopping for a stallion because I want to see him up close and personal first.

R.I.P. JC 5/19/85 - 12/9/14. You made my life better.
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post #20 of 21 Old 02-10-2020, 07:31 AM
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Keep in mind that inheritance with white does not determine the amount of expression. Combining multiple patterns typically increases the amount of white that shows up. For some reason sorrels are more likely to express white patterns in larger amounts (percent body coverage). With one of any you can have a very minimal expression and the horse still would not qualify for the full Paint registry.

Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.
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