[WhattaTroublemaker]

We had a small set back last night. He decided he did not want to go in the barn for the night. So out I go at nine (fully dark with all the rain) with a flashlight trying to locate the ****** in our 75 acres. What makes matters worse, the power to the barn decided to quit working completely. No lights, no radio, no power. After half hour of yelling, walking around and shaking a bag, I found him in the far corner of the pasture, grazing.

It's been monsoon raining for a few days and it's so MUDDY. I've been trying to keep his feet dry when he's his stall but I haven't been able to stop a mild case of thrush. His central sulcus is sore to my prodding, so I'm battling that too.

 

[waresbear]

You are very dedicated to that horse my dear. He is one lucky ****** I tell ya.

 

[george the mule]

Hi Trouble! What others have said, but is it possible he is lonely, or missing a close buddy from the other place? Might it be possible to take him back for a visit to see if things resolve? You're gonna hate this, but maybe put him back on sweet feed for awhile, and if he improves, wean him slowly?

Steve

Oops; didn't realize there were 5 pages; ignore the above if you've already been there.

 

[walkinthewalk]

I hesitated reading this thread. I sensed it would be bad news and I was right.

I am so very sorry for Trouble and you.

Regarding the Omeprazole: if you have any sort of rapport with the vet, see if you can get it from the vet. It is my understanding that what you buy on your own is not the same strength.

I have dealt with gastric ulcers on three horses. With every horse the vet is very clear about keeping the horse on the Omeprazole for the full 30 days so the ulcers can heal. A thirty day bottle now costs me $180. It's pricey but well worth it.

Trouble probably needs de-wormed but do NOT do that until you take him thru the 30 day treatment for gastric ulcers.

I always have agreed with GeorgeT's great advice --- until now, lollol. Knowing what sweet feed can do to the hind gut and the angst Trouble is suffering thru, I would not put him back on sweet feed.

Is this what you are using to mix Trouble's supplements in?

http://www.clarencefarmservices.ca/wp-content/factsheets/equine/3584 CFS Honesty.pdf

If so, it will be ok until you finish the bag. If it is pelleted and has corn in it, the corn is distillers corn which means all the sugars have been removed by whiskey makers and the dried grain is then sold to feed makers.

I agree, however, to take Trouble off the Honesty feed when you finish the bag as they do not list ingredients. That means they can put any sort of by product in there to meet their guaranteed analysis.

I am so sorry for Trouble's emotional scarring. Whatever happened to him in his stall will likely stay with him his entire life. Duke was forced into the back corner at feeding time and I'm sure was hit a few times. He was under five years when that happened but to his end time at 27, he would fly to the back corner of his stall, eyes wide, if a man simply took his hat off to scratch his head.

Lots of patience and please don't expect Trouble to shake off all of the skeletons -- if he completely forgets, all well and good. If he is so sensitive that he can't forget (like with the broom incident). You and everyone else will have to be mindful, respectful and give him his space in that regard.

Humans suffer traumas and are allowed to have space, animals should be given the same respect

Also, you'll hate me for this one but, I don't think Trouble looks that thin, lollol. He has lost a lot of weight but he looked too heavy in the first picture. I am sorry but that's what happens when you get the opinion of someone who lives with an insulin resistant horse, the vet frequently gets on my case about him weighing too much, and I can see three ribs, lollol

 

[george the mule]

I always have agreed with GeorgeT's great advice --- until now, lollol. Knowing what sweet feed can do to the hind gut and the angst Trouble is suffering thru, I would not put him back on sweet feed.

TeeHee! Thanks Walk. Mmmmm, assuming that ulcers aren't a problem . . .

I started giving my gang a skinny flake of Alfalfa for dinner (they are on free-feed Timothy hay) during a nasty cold spell last winter; just to help with those sub-zero nights don't ya know. Now it has become "expected" and I get some pretty grumpy equines if I don't have any to serve; like I'm deliberately _starving_ 'em or something. "We don' want no stinkin' Hay; We want our Al Fal Fa !!!"

Trouble, after reading all of the way thru this thread, one thing that did stand out was a dislike of the new barn environment. Can't imagine why this might be, but they can be moody, emotional critters. Maybe leave him turned out if that's what he prefers? Mine have access to nice stalls, but almost never use them, the one exception being on hot days; then they will come in to stand underneath the ceiling fans. I call 'em "Barn Trolls"; all you see is their noses sticking out

Steve

 

[Hondo]

I glanced over the previous and didn't see where there was another horse for company. Is there?

Three year ago I was dubious about the need of another horse for company. I still think they may not be necessary on one condition: That their human stays physically with them 24/7/365.

In the wild, a lone horse is a dead horse. That seems to be etched or hard wired into their brain.

The only solution seems to be:

1. 24/7 with owner
2. a pasture mate
3. Learned Helplessness

I provided feed all winter for a horse that was not mine just so Hondo could have a buddy. If there's enough grass maybe advertise for free boarding for a compatible horse?

If none of this applies, just ignore me

 

[Yogiwick]

"Also, you'll hate me for this one but, I don't think Trouble looks that thin, lollol. He has lost a lot of weight but he looked too heavy in the first picture. I am sorry but that's what happens when you get the opinion of someone who lives with an insulin resistant horse, the vet frequently gets on my case about him weighing too much, and I can see three ribs, lollol"

My thoughts as well!

 

[Smilie]

Whatever happened at your parent's place,now is past history, and you have to work with the horse you now have.
Many things could have attributed to the hrose he now is, with sweet feed certainly being a factor. Add possibility not being handled much in the last few months, change in coming to anew place, and possible mis handling/riding by your mom, and you now have ahorse you need to to 're introduced to.
First thing you must do, is not to use possible bad experience as an excuse, and work with the hrose you now have, to make him back into the horse you knew and enjoyed.

 

[george the mule]

Whatever happened at your parent's place,now is past history, and you have to work with the horse you now have.

Yes, just this.

 

[tinyliny]

some folks feed a 'skinny flake' of alfalfa daily. it can often help with horses who are prone to ulcers. at least, that's what our BO says, and they've never had any ulcers. but, the horses have mostly all day turnout, so that may be more the reason.

 

[george the mule]

the horses have mostly all day turnout, so that may be more the reason.

This is pretty much my understanding. Horses need to nibble all day to maintain a healthy tummy. Two or three large meals, no matter what's in 'em, just isn't the same thing.

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

Trouble is in a herd of four (five with him) and his stall is a part of the run in, panelled off. His stall is very roomy, 9 1/2 by 16 feet, with no solid wall dividing him from the others when they're in, just a heavy duty panel. He also has a window he can see the others out of when they're not in the run. He's only stalled at night as well, because I can't trust him enough to not jump the fence during the night. Over the last few weeks though, he's stayed in the pasture during the day, so fingers crossed when we revamp the fence he can be out 24/7.

I was going to deworm him but thought against it for that very reason, as I don't want to upset his stomach more if it hurts.

He gets unlimited hay in his stall 24/7 and will go in during the day to eat hay instead of graze, or to get out of the rain. I've also pin pointed his reactivity to his right side only, so I may test for night blindness, as his dam is a reg. appaloosa. Pray that's not the case, but it's possible.

We're going for a ride today if he does well with his groundwork, and we will be doing some long trotting on a straight stretch with some hills on a quiet road across from my driveway.

Thrush treatment is a-go, I squirted some koppercare into his central sulcus yesterday and will reapply today. Sucks because it is W E T outside. Knee deep mud in the front part of the pasture, and squishy ground everywhere else. I've been diligent on keeping his stall dry, it gets stripped every day and limed.

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

On another note, he is SO SO messy in his stall. Poop spread everywhere, big huge puddles of pee everywhere, I swear he smears it all over on purpose.

 

[walkinthewalk]

While every horse is different, here is my over-the-years- observation regarding messy stalls:

1. You clean the stall every day and lime it, so that is not an issue

2. Some horses, including geldings, will do all their poops in one spot. Some will pick a new spot every time.

3. All of them seem to pee in the same spot, unless that spot gets so over loaded, they will go to another spot.

4. None of my horses have ever trashed their stalls UNLESS they don't feel good. I have counted as many as 9 piles of manure from my 16.1H Walking Horse, in his 12 x 14 stall and they have all been in tact. I just stick the manure bucket fork under them and grab everything in one fell swoop.

If something outside disturbs the horses like a big lightening storm, or a pack of coyotes crossing the pasture, they will pace their stalls and mash the manure down into otherwise perfectly good shavings.

If they don't feel good, they will do the same thing. The will also thrash around while lying down. When my IR horse foundered so bad, he would poop while he was laying down and that resulted in manure all over his bum, plus it would get stirred into the shavings when he got up.

MY point is that I don't think Trouble is inherently messy. My thought is that he either doesn't feel good in some way, being a flight animal he may feel stressed and is pacing his stall.

I still haven't found an affordable (to me) wireless camera system so I can have more sleepless nights from watching the barn, but I do have an intercom system on my nightstand. This is how I know about some of the thrashing.

I also know if my IR horse had a rough night by the amount of shavings stuck in his thick mane. Sometimes all I see is shavings

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

While every horse is different, here is my over-the-years- observation regarding messy stalls:

1. You clean the stall every day and lime it, so that is not an issue

2. Some horses, including geldings, will do all their poops in one spot. Some will pick a new spot every time.

3. All of them seem to pee in the same spot, unless that spot gets so over loaded, they will go to another spot.

4. None of my horses have ever trashed their stalls UNLESS they don't feel good. I have counted as many as 9 piles of manure from my 16.1H Walking Horse, in his 12 x 14 stall and they have all been in tact. I just stick the manure bucket fork under them and grab everything in one fell swoop.

If something outside disturbs the horses like a big lightening storm, or a pack of coyotes crossing the pasture, they will pace their stalls and mash the manure down into otherwise perfectly good shavings.

If they don't feel good, they will do the same thing. The will also thrash around while lying down. When my IR horse foundered so bad, he would poop while he was laying down and that resulted in manure all over his bum, plus it would get stirred into the shavings when he got up.

MY point is that I don't think Trouble is inherently messy. My thought is that he either doesn't feel good in some way, being a flight animal he may feel stressed and is pacing his stall.

I still haven't found an affordable (to me) wireless camera system so I can have more sleepless nights from watching the barn, but I do have an intercom system on my nightstand. This is how I know about some of the thrashing.

I also know if my IR horse had a rough night by the amount of shavings stuck in his thick mane. Sometimes all I see is shavings

Amazing observations walkin, you're bang on. Trouble will pace back and forth from his hay to his window to watch the others. He will also not lay down in his stall. He also likes to hang over his gate. I'm calling the farrier out next week, to come down and take a look at his feet. We'll see yet again if I call in a shotty farrier, as he's new.

I want to start doing my own feet, and I've researched and studied enough to know what his feet should look like, and exactly what's wrong, but I lack the hands on skills to fix it properly. And good luck getting a farrier out who will do what you tell him :lol:

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

So an update on Trouble and I:

A few days ago, he was transitioned to 24/7 pasture. He was doing extremely well staying in our new fencing, so I let him be. WELL. This morning I get up at five am to go to work, to have my neighbour banging on my door. All FIVE horses were about a mile down the road. So I hopped in the truck, found them, yelled and they all galloped home with the truck. This was instigated by Trouble no doubt. The four older horses have had the same fence for 15+ years. You can practically take the fence down and they don't leave. What's more bizarre, there was not one break in the fence, anywhere. So did they all jump over?? All in all, Trouble is back to going inside at night. He was not happy about it tonight but he will have to deal. He just can't be trusted.

On another note, we've been going for hand walks off property and exploring some trails to get him over his slight herdiness- the second time out he forgot about his mates completely and was very excited to go for an adventure. We waded through some waist deep puddles, through come clear cuts and around some ATV trails.

Another thing I've noticed -which I'm very excited about- is that he's finally behaving like a horse. Today he played with the pony for 45 minutes, biting each others knees and being pests, but he also exhibited some stallion like behaviour, like snaking our mares and chasing the geldings away from them. Something I've NEVER seen. If I hadn't witnessed two testicles come out of that horse (albeit they were TINY for a three year old stallion) I'd think he was a crypt. He went on teasing the mares for about an hour, biting their hocks and stifles and snaking them quite aggressively, before he took a keen interest in running the pony out of the herd and kneeing him into the ground with a mouthful of crest. Good thing pony can hold his own, and he seemed to enjoy the posturing. I'm just glad he's acting like a horse. He never played when he was a babe, was very very submissive, just generally numb about the herd dynamics. Which shouldn't have been that way since he was socialized very well.

I'm going to video some of the behaviour tomorrow because I find it interesting and beautiful to watch- as long as he doesn't try this nonsense with me- and in case anyone else cares to enjoy it.

 

[Smilie]

[



He gets unlimited hay in his stall 24/7 and will go in during the day to eat hay instead of graze, or to get out of the rain. I've also pin pointed his reactivity to his right side only, so I may test for night blindness, as his dam is a reg. appaloosa. Pray that's not the case, but it's possible.

We're going for a ride today if he does well with his groundwork, and we will be doing some long trotting on a straight stretch with some hills on a quiet road across from my driveway.

Thrush treatment is a-go, I squirted some koppercare into his central sulcus yesterday and will reapply today. Sucks because it is W E T outside. Knee deep mud in the front part of the pasture, and squishy ground everywhere else. I've been diligent on keeping his stall dry, it gets stripped every day and limed.

If he is only half Appaloosa I doubt you need to worry about CSNB, as horses that have the condition are homozygous for the LP complex[/QUOTE]

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

[



He gets unlimited hay in his stall 24/7 and will go in during the day to eat hay instead of graze, or to get out of the rain. I've also pin pointed his reactivity to his right side only, so I may test for night blindness, as his dam is a reg. appaloosa. Pray that's not the case, but it's possible.

We're going for a ride today if he does well with his groundwork, and we will be doing some long trotting on a straight stretch with some hills on a quiet road across from my driveway.

Thrush treatment is a-go, I squirted some koppercare into his central sulcus yesterday and will reapply today. Sucks because it is W E T outside. Knee deep mud in the front part of the pasture, and squishy ground everywhere else. I've been diligent on keeping his stall dry, it gets stripped every day and limed.

If he is only half Appaloosa I doubt you need to worry about CSNB, as horses that have the condition are homozygous for the LP complex

[/QUOTE]

Ah I get ya. Now equine reccurent uveitis- this is different than CSNB correct? As it's found in quarter horses as well as Appaloosas? I doubt he has a vision problem but I want to keep my mind open.

 

[Hondo]

The escape piqued my interest. Do you think all the horses could jump it? How high? Is it possible they could walk through it? I had a three strand rope electric fence that was off. One horse that didn't know about it being electric just sort of wormed his way through the fence and was just standing inside the pen/yard eating hay.

If there were a strand of electric fence and he touched it, he'd stay away after that. If he can get out during the night I'd worry about him getting out in the daytime.

Glad he's being a horse. Sounds smart too.

 

[WhattaTroublemaker]

The escape piqued my interest. Do you think all the horses could jump it? How high? Is it possible they could walk through it? I had a three strand rope electric fence that was off. One horse that didn't know about it being electric just sort of wormed his way through the fence and was just standing inside the pen/yard eating hay.

If there were a strand of electric fence and he touched it, he'd stay away after that. If he can get out during the night I'd worry about him getting out in the daytime.

Glad he's being a horse. Sounds smart too.

Oh, it's hot alright. He's shocked himself countless times and turned to jumping over it (what talent) he stays in the fence during the day (don't know why the grass is greener on the other side at night :? ) the others haven't gotten out in literally YEARS with the exception of one mare who would walk over it last winter when the snow drifted above it.

It's a single strand of Hotwire, just above chest high (just below where their nose would be when walking) and the others are highly respectable around the electric. Will not go anywhere near it. When we used to block off the winter pasture we had to force them across in the spring because they thought it was still there. What a hoot that was.

Worst part, they didn't want to go BACK into the pasture in fear of the fence. I went around the entire thing and found no down wires, no cold spots, no breaks. The only thing I can think of is if someone let them out in the middle of the night (?!?!?!) and closed the gate behind them. It's highly unlikely they would ALL jump over it and no one would get snagged and pull some down. One of our mares is retired and nearly crippled, can hardly step into a trailer- so it's very unlikely that she would jump a fence. They're huge home bodies too, they haven't been off property in years with the exception of Trouble.