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Discussion Starter #1
Since Nelson's hock injury - he's been coming back wonderfully *knock on wood* we are now walking and trotting wonderfully.

Recent video of us back into light work:


We have been given full permission by our vet to start walk I think it will be 2 weeks Monday? And we have now been given the OK to start light trot work.

I started him on an Oral suppliment - Corta-Flx with HA in it, but we discussed starting him on IM injections since he is 20 now and has been used hard throughout his life.

We are starting with Glucosamine now, to see how he does - but Adequan and Legend was brought up to merge into if he doesn't do well on Glucosamine.

What is in the two? I know Legend has HA, but what is in Adequan? I also see a price difference where Legend is more expensive - why is that?

I was also informed that Adequan and Legend was designed as a repair system only *not sure if I worded that correctly* but it was explained that you give either of the two for about 4 -5 months and then move to a maintenance IM or oral suppliment.

I don't know if that is true either?
 

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OK! Yay! I know so much useless crap about this!!
I have all of my horses on monthly Legend and Adequan. Yes even my "never taken a lame step" 7 year old. He has been on them since he was 5. Yes I know I'm crazy, I also get him "PPEed" twice a year. I'm anol.
I swear by these injections. Along with everyone else in the dressage world. Some people go so far as to do Adequan twice a month and Legend once.
Legend is HA, which is joint fluid. It basically just keeps the HA in high enough levels in the joint capsule, even under strain. These really only need to be injected once ever 4 weeks, any more is overkill and there's no added benefit. Legend is purely a preventative. It will never reverse damage, just keep more from happening.
Adequan is a PSGAG or Polysulfated Glycosaminoglycan. It basically serves to protect, strengthen and in some cases restore the cartilage in the joint. Where Legend just adds cushion, this stuff actually improves the structure and as far as for long term use, this is your stuff. In Nelson's case I would do the loading doses (ie. however many injections once every 4 days) and then continue by doing it once a month along with the Legend.
You can have horses on this stuff for a long time, as long as you can pay for it, that is. Getting the generics can reduce costs substantially, but there is no one to sue if your horse dies from contamination. I totally forget why Legend is more expensive.

Anyways in summary:
Legend and Adequan do not do the same thing!
You can inject them on a schedule of once a month for as long as your heart (and wallet) desires.
Injecting this stuff into the horse reduces any gastrointestinal risk and also works about a billion times better than oral supplementation. You may as well be feeding him sweet feed, because that's about the benefit you get form those oral supplements most of the time.
I have been using these injections for a few years and see no reason to ever switch back to oral supplementation. On all four horses I've used them on the results have been real. In my mum's older, arthritic horse you can always feel when it is time for his injections, and after wards he can run and play all day and come in to be ridden and be 100% sound, despite getting basically a death-by-arthritis sentence a few years ago.

Good luck! And talk to your vet!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Rx_Info_Sheets/rx_eq_psgag.pdf

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Rx_Info_Sheets/rx_eq_hyaluronate.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for that! I really appreciate your expertise Anabel!

Well, I guess maybe I should just go with the Adequan and be done with it!

So I do 1 vile every 4 days as a loading dose for 1 month?
 

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Thank you for that! I really appreciate your expertise Anabel!

Well, I guess maybe I should just go with the Adequan and be done with it!

So I do 1 vile every 4 days as a loading dose for 1 month?
Err it's less than a month.. I forget I think it's like 5 or 6 doses?? Talk to your vet about that. But yes, you do the loading doses and then 4 weeks after the last loading dose you give another injection, 4 weeks after that another one, etc.. etc.. You can't "skip a dose" one month because they need to have a certain amount in their systems for it to work. So if you inject the loading doses and then leave it, it's not going to work as effectively as if you "boost" it once a month after you load it.

Lol I am in no way a vet, I have just kept some unsound horses sound on this stuff and I never do anything to my horses without researching first.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nelson is definately not unsound, I'm absolutely thrilled with his recovery from the injury - I am sure you saw the thread.

But he was showing signs of wear and tear in that exact hock that ended up injured. He would hold it up and then place it down and was reaching "short" with that leg when in work.

He is 20 now, so I just want to help keep him comfortable and happy. He deserves nothing less.

I am going to go with Adequan - have you heard that part I was told by my Vet? That Adequan is meant to repair and be only used for 5ish months, and then move to a maintenance suppliment?

I did the math, and what I am spending on oral suppiments and the glucosamine IM injections, I am spending just as much on that as what I would by using Adequan.
 

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Nelson is definately not unsound, I'm absolutely thrilled with his recovery from the injury - I am sure you saw the thread.

But he was showing signs of wear and tear in that exact hock that ended up injured. He would hold it up and then place it down and was reaching "short" with that leg when in work.

He is 20 now, so I just want to help keep him comfortable and happy. He deserves nothing less.

I am going to go with Adequan - have you heard that part I was told by my Vet? That Adequan is meant to repair and be only used for 5ish months, and then move to a maintenance suppliment?

I did the math, and what I am spending on oral suppiments and the glucosamine IM injections, I am spending just as much on that as what I would by using Adequan.
Exactly!! This is what I try to tell people and they don't believe me!!

How experienced is your vet? I've been advised by a nationally recognized surgeon/veterinarian, and a few FEI vets that this is the way to go. These people eat sleep and breath performance dressage and jumping horses. I also happen to know that one of the top horses in my area is on these supplements (Legend and Adequan). I would be really interested to know where your vet heard/read/studied this... I've never really heard anything limiting the use of Adequan other than allergies and how "cost prohibitive" it can be. As far as I know, Adequan is a maintenance supplement.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
My vet is definately not as experienced as yours. She is a large animal vet who deals mostly with horses and cows. She doesn't branch off onto a particular field like the Equine Lameness Specialists - so I see her not knowing as much as your vet does with this topic.
 

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My vet is definately not as experienced as yours. She is a large animal vet who deals mostly with horses and cows. She doesn't branch off onto a particular field like the Equine Lameness Specialists - so I see her not knowing as much as your vet does with this topic.
Yeah, you might want to look into finding a vet for stuff like this that is more specialized. For my "normal" vet work I have a friend/vet who has a clinic in the back of her truck and she'll drive out for an extremely nominal cost and float teeth, give injections, we'll talk about feeding programs, exercise related stuff, etc.. But when I do my PPEs or think my horse is off then I call out the big guns FEI veterinarian from 4 hours away. Luckily we train with the same person so I'll see her a lot when I'm training or at clinics and I get a lot of that stuff done then. That way I get the best of both worlds, because my regular vet is fantastic, and really inexpensive and when I really need some advice or a work up done I can still call the FEI vet.
It is really, excruciatingly expensive to use a "top of their field" vet for normal stuff. Like I'd say 2-4x the amount of money. So don't switch totally, but make sure that everyone is good with it first. My vets know about each other and no one is mad about client sharing. Some people get really ****ed about that kind of stuff.
 

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LOL, my Vet works out of her truck as well. She has a whole set up in the back of it, very fancy. She doesn't have an office so her prices are very cheap in compareson to a vet who has a bunch of fancy machinery to pay off.

She is my go to vet. When Nelson colics, she is there. When Nelson choked, she was there. When Nelson hurt his hock, she was there. No questions asked, she was there.

I have a HUGE vet bill with her, but yet, when I need, her, she's there. She is in it for the animals, not the $. I'm making monthly payments of $50 to $100 and she's fine with that.

There is another vet, he is very expensive but his expertise is in lameness and performance horses. He deals with alot of the mid level eventers in our area, the majority of the upper level riders move to warmer places.

I'd say I'd have him come out, but I'd wrather just go strait to Adequan to be honest.
 

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I did the math, and what I am spending on oral suppiments and the glucosamine IM injections, I am spending just as much on that as what I would by using Adequan.
I figured that out too. Some people dont really understand it really does cost the same, well after the expensive loading dose. Im going to talk to my vet about it ASAP. The vet fee does add to the cost though, so if I do decided on IM, I'll be giving it myself. I do believe if your horse is insured and something goes wrong with administering the shot, and you gave it, you arent covered under the policy.
 

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My dressage instructor just advised me to use Adequan for my 20yo for her left rear. I too would eventually be administering the shot (geez, hope I can do it!) so 2 questions:

1) About how much is the monthly shot?
2) Where do you inject it? At the 'injured' site or in the neck vein like vaccines?
 

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I was soo glad when I came across this thread. My vet told me to consider starting my mare on either Adequan or Legend, but he really didn't explain a lot about the differences etc.

She's going to be 13 soon, and her hocks have fluid built-up, some heat, and it never seems to go away completely. She's not lame, but nothing seems to be working. The ONLY thing I have tried that has worked is Surpass topical cream, and that's $53 bucks a tube. And from what I know, you're not supposed to use it as an everyday type thing. (On the directions it says to use it for up to only 10 days.) Idk, I could be wrong.

But this thread was a lot of help! :)
 

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My dressage instructor just advised me to use Adequan for my 20yo for her left rear. I too would eventually be administering the shot (geez, hope I can do it!) so 2 questions:

1) About how much is the monthly shot?
2) Where do you inject it? At the 'injured' site or in the neck vein like vaccines?
I found the answers to these questions online myself :)

I too am glad for this thread. ty.
 

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For the most part what Anabel said is true.. Adequan helps with the degenerating cartilage and Legend is a synthetic synovial(sp?) fluid which is basically lube for the joints which also in-turns helps with cartilage by decreasing friction but is usually advisable when the cartilage has already deteriorated and resulted in a smaller joint space. Legend is also more expensive because its an IV injection.

Just remember once you start injections you can't really stop.. your telling the body it has enough fluid and stops making its own. With a 20yr old horse it's probably a good idea to start injections but injecting young horses is a slippery slope. I just don't want the average horse owner to see this post and think they have to inject their horses because unless you have a serious competitor (thus a market of owners who can afford to continue those injections) you could severely limit the potential sale of that horse.
 

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Just remember once you start injections you can't really stop.. your telling the body it has enough fluid and stops making its own. With a 20yr old horse it's probably a good idea to start injections but injecting young horses is a slippery slope. I just don't want the average horse owner to see this post and think they have to inject their horses because unless you have a serious competitor (thus a market of owners who can afford to continue those injections) you could severely limit the potential sale of that horse.
Good to know!
 

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Just remember once you start injections you can't really stop.. your telling the body it has enough fluid and stops making its own. With a 20yr old horse it's probably a good idea to start injections but injecting young horses is a slippery slope. I just don't want the average horse owner to see this post and think they have to inject their horses because unless you have a serious competitor (thus a market of owners who can afford to continue those injections) you could severely limit the potential sale of that horse.
I would love to see a clinical study supporting this.
I actually attended a lecture last week by a well regarded sport horse veterinarian who claimed that Legend shots really only supply enough HA to support the production of joint fluid for 7-10 days. Contrary to what I had previously thought, he suggested that Legend could be injected up to once a week. I have also read articles supporting the thought that the HA sits in the horse's bloodstream until it is needed and only acts as a buffer to the horse's natural production of HA. The Legend is only put to use by the horse's body in periods of high stress.
The only injections clinically proven to cause damage at this point are steroidal.
 
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