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I will definitely ask him about getting the toe more relief. He said next time he is out he wants to seal the crack to give it a chance to grow out. Thoughts on doing that?
There are times when sealing/lacing/casting a crack may be appropriate but in this case, I'd say no.

Address the distortion in the foot and the cracks will eventually grow out (particularly the horizontal "crack") or, in the case of the vertical crack, it will grow out or simply tighten. Using adhesive or any polymer to "seal" the vertical crack is likely to trap anaerobic bacteria.

Based on my pictures, you would definitely say its clubbed not foundered, correct?
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Definitely clubbed.

As to potential for founder (laminitis), probably none active although there may be history of mechanical rotation. Radiographs are always a good idea, if for no other reason, to determine extent of any bone remodeling, sole thickness and to set a baseline for future reference.

Cheers,
Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Thanks mark, im not looking to fix her foot I just want to learn more and be sure that she is receiving proper care and of course keep her sound.

As far as the tight fit, she does have a very big over step so I keep bell boots on her but I havent heard anything about her ever pulling her shoes.

Under the pad he put 3 or 4 cotton balls soaked with thrush buster and iodine.
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Mark, I've been following this for a while. I know nothing of what you are talking about. I know the hoof, the frog, the coronary band and the pastern. All these other technical words you use are so confusing. Is there a way you could come down a little to us so we can understand the parts better? You obviously have studied and gone to school but we little people (me) don't understand those tech words for the bone and hoof parts. You seem very intelligent but I would like it so I could understand it in my language. I get very lost when you talk but am interested in what your saying.
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Mark, I've been following this for a while. I know nothing of what you are talking about. I know the hoof, the frog, the coronary band and the pastern. All these other technical words you use are so confusing. Is there a way you could come down a little to us so we can understand the parts better? You obviously have studied and gone to school but we little people (me) don't understand those tech words for the bone and hoof parts. You seem very intelligent but I would like it so I could understand it in my language. I get very lost when you talk but am interested in what your saying.
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Been trying to tell him this for a while.:wink:
 

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Well, I'm not trying to start anything just that a lot of us here aren't as knowledgeable on the technical words and so it gets a little confusing. Not cutting Mark down but that he needs to come down to our level.
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Thanks mark, im not looking to fix her foot I just want to learn more and be sure that she is receiving proper care and of course keep her sound.
Good goals and hopefully this discussion has provided additional information that you'll find useful.

As far as the tight fit, she does have a very big over step so I keep bell boots on her but I havent heard anything about her ever pulling her shoes.
Bell boots can help a lot and may afford your farrier opportunity to provide a wider shoe fit at the heel quarters.

Under the pad he put 3 or 4 cotton balls soaked with thrush buster and iodine.
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Good that he makes some effort to avoid bacterial/fungal problems. I use Magic Cushion to achieve a more uniform coverage/protection. It's relatively inexpensive and effective.

Mark, I've been following this for a while. I know nothing of what you are talking about. I know the hoof, the frog, the coronary band and the pastern. All these other technical words you use are so confusing. Is there a way you could come down a little to us so we can understand the parts better? You obviously have studied and gone to school but we little people (me) don't understand those tech words for the bone and hoof parts. You seem very intelligent but I would like it so I could understand it in my language. I get very lost when you talk but am interested in what your saying.
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While I understand your concern, discussing specifics of equine hoof care can become grammatically more complex as we delve into greater detail while trying to understand/explain lameness, gait and performance issues.

The structures you acknowledge familiarity with (hoof, frog, coronary band and pastern) are those things we can see. The farrier has to be familiar with many of those anatomical structures that we cannot see. He also needs to understand the mechanical forces in play that effect those structures.

Yes, I could probably "dumb it down" in terms of language, but I honestly consider that a disservice to the reader. Correct terminology encourages the reader to gain a larger understanding of their horses anatomy and hopefully, why a farrier employs a given protocol for a specific horse.

The best possible team for assuring quality health and performance of your horse is not the farrier and vet. The best team is the farrier, the vet and YOU. The more you know about your horse, the better prepared you will be to engage in meaningful conversations and decisions in behalf of your horse.

Here's a sidenote you may find interesting.

Did you know that until recent years, the what/why/how of the farrier's trade was often considered very secretive? Not only did farriers not share information with horse owners, they wouldn't even share information with each other!

A farrier could walk into a barn where another farrier was working and guess what happened?

The working farrier would stop what he was doing! He didn't want the competing farrier to see his "trade secrets".

Even today, there are still farriers that engage in this practice of "secrecy".

The good news is that has largely changed in the last thirty years. Farriers have become much more open about their work; pursuing continuing education and sharing information with each other and the equine industry in general. It's a hugely important change for everyone involved. Personally, I credit the American Farrier's Association and some of the better farrier schools with much of this change.

Don't be afraid to ask questions if the terminology or concepts seem unfamiliar. A basic understanding of equine anatomy and bio-mechanics is a reasonable goal. All the better if, along the way, we pick up some correct terminology to assist our discussions.

Cheers,
Mark
 

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What your not understanding is many of these posters are very young. Some don't care about all the terminology. All they want to know is what, why and how to go about fixing something. Its great you want to teach others the anatomy of a horses inner structures and what cutting or beveling can do to not only the hoof but the bones all along that. But there is a reason farriers become farriers and go to school and learn all that and there's a reason some people don't. I believe there wouldn't be a farrier business and that everyone would be able to do their own horses.

I'm only asking that instead of getting so technical that 13yr olds here get way too confused and learn absolutely nothing that you would come down to a childs level. And I take a little offense to the "dumb it down" comment. That is a little uncalled for. That only makes me not want to learn from you and makes me want to walk away from your advice. Is that how you want to portray yourself, as a self loathing jerk?
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Discussion Starter #28
thank you for all the help guys! i have a lot to talk to my farrier about as well as another farrier for a second opinion!
 

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Been trying to tell him this for a while.:wink:
Hell Bent, could have just said, "Yeah, it's a club foot. Manage accordingly".

Heaven forfend an owner know anything more than how to sign a check.

Little wonder why a few leaders of the barefoot brigade were able to out-market an entire farrier trade and gain such momentum in the industry.

Ask horse owners who Pete Ramey is and you'll get a significant percentage of acknowledgment. Ask those same owners who Grant Moon is and you'll be met with blank stares.

Cheers,
Mark
 

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I don't think there is any reason to be offended by the "dumb it down" phrase.

I beleive that Mark is correct to put things the way he does. He puts a lot of substantial information into his posts. If you (collective) don't know a specific term that he uses, it really isn't that hard to discover what it is. Also, in my opinion, by him using the correct phrases and terms for the structures of the hoof/leg he is being a lot more specific than if he tried to translate it into "layman's terms."
 

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Hell Bent, could have just said, "Yeah, it's a club foot. Manage accordingly".
Could have, but didn't. Also could have said "Back the toes up for a straight hoof wall, lower the heels to help engage the frog but in doing so will also require the addition of wedging so as not to overload the Deep Digital flexor tendon." However I just let you run w/ it.:lol:

Heaven forfend an owner know anything more than how to sign a check.
For some owners that is their best quality.

Little wonder why a few leaders of the barefoot brigade were able to out-market an entire farrier trade and gain such momentum in the industry.
I've not last any to them, though I have picked up a few.

Ask horse owners who Pete Ramey is and you'll get a significant percentage of acknowledgment. Ask those same owners who Grant Moon is and you'll be met with blank stares.
This is the same blanke stare I get at times while talking to clients. This is the point I begin to change my explanations to a form that is more suitable to said customer. I don't really care if they know about Moon, Trnka, McClean et al.
 

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What your not understanding is many of these posters are very young.
Your presumption is in error.

Some don't care about all the terminology. All they want to know is what, why and how to go about fixing something.
And those readers will pass on the more involved posts. Reader's choice.

I believe there wouldn't be a farrier business and that everyone would be able to do their own horses.
Knowledge can be taught. Experience cannot. I think the farrier industry is generally safe from any serious risk that horse owners might learn too much.

I'm only asking that instead of getting so technical that 13yr olds here get way too confused and learn absolutely nothing that you would come down to a childs level.
If I'm talking to children (e.g. 4-H members, etc), I do "come down to their level". When talking to horse owners, I have adult conversational expectations. Adults pay the bills and often want more information.

In my experience, 13 year olds "get way too confused" about a lot of things.

And I take a little offense to the "dumb it down" comment. That is a little uncalled for.
Not "uncalled for" at all. It's a common expression used frequently and all to often appropriately in American educational systems, government and business. Frankly, it's a fundamental problem in our country. Everyone wants everything served up simple, easy and fast with as little effort in critical thinking as possible. Ya want fries with that burger?

That only makes me not want to learn from you and makes me want to walk away from your advice.
Is it your habit to "walk away" from anything that challenges you or that you find unsettling? Sorry, I'm a professional farrier. I don't do hand-holding, hair brushing, daycare or therapy. Child counseling is 3 doors down on the left.

Is that how you want to portray yourself, as a self loathing jerk?
Is this how you want to portray yourself... as a whining child with an aversion to learning anything that seems difficult, challenging or otherwise "not at your level"?

Growing up is tough. Growing up in ignorance is lot tougher.

Cheers,
Mark
 

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For some owners that is their best quality.
Ouch! Not all truths benefit from a voice.

I've not last any to them, though I have picked up a few.
Ah, therein lay the "gotcha". You don't know how many you've lost. The concern isn't how many you've lost or gained. The concern is influence on the trade and the horse.

This is the same blanke stare I get at times while talking to clients. This is the point I begin to change my explanations to a form that is more suitable to said customer. I don't really care if they know about Moon, Trnka, McClean et al.
Fair enough, but that's face-to-face customer interaction with a different set of goals and influence. Public forums offer a broader venue for more interesting discussion.

Cheers,
Mark
 

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Wow Mark. I wasn't looking for a fight. I never said that the way you explain things was wrong only that I wish that you would explain your terminology a little less fancy. I am ending this and yes walking away. Finding your attitude is a wee more "I'm better than tho", pretty disgusting.
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Mark do you go shoeing horses wearing a suit and tie since you are such a professional.

You are sounding like you need to get a tax cut passed or something.

I really am wondering how much experience you actually have if any.

You sound like a farrier that wants to shoe everything by the book with little to no experience and NO ONE else knows anything.

Seriously you really have taken this a bit far I believe.

End of story i'm done with you and your attitude.

I have never ever met a farrier with quite the mentallity you show on this forum not even in shoeing clinics and shoeing conventions.

Good luck with you and your business.
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Ah, therein lay the "gotcha". You don't know how many you've lost.
I know exactly how many I've "lost". None, on the rare occasion my book has an opening, it's usually due to the loss of the last horse on the farm. That or I've fired them. Where they go after that is their problem.
Of course there may be some out there w/ books that revolve more than mine.:wink:

The concern isn't how many you've lost or gained. The concern is influence on the trade and the horse.
They have their place, just like other aspects of the horse industry that some find unsavory.

Fair enough, but that's face-to-face customer interaction with a different set of goals and influence. Public forums offer a broader venue for more interesting discussion.
I see litle difference,but to eack his/her own.
 

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Mark do you go shoeing horses wearing a suit and tie since you are such a professional.

You are sounding like you need to get a tax cut passed or something.
Are you that easily intimidated by someone who might challenge your notion of how to manage a club footed horse?

I really am wondering how much experience you actually have if any.
And I wonder about the credibility of a farrier that doesn't understand that tendons do not contract and there's sometimes more to managing a club footed horse than just trimming down the heels til the knees match, nailing on a pair of flat keggers and telling the owner "she will be fine".

You sound like a farrier that wants to shoe everything by the book with little to no experience and NO ONE else knows anything.
Your perceptions are your problem, not mine. Don't think I'll apologize for having read more than "the book", whatever that is.

Seriously you really have taken this a bit far I believe.
How so? By questioning some of your assertions? Heaven forbid anyone on a public forum do that.

End of story i'm done with you and your attitude.
Your choice, but no attitude here. The topic is management of a club footed horse. Not your sensitivities or perceptions.

I have never ever met a farrier with quite the mentallity you show on this forum not even in shoeing clinics and shoeing conventions.
Really? Most farrier clinics, conventions and seminars include various and liberal doses of equine mechanics, anatomy, forging, shoeing and problem solving protocols.

Those venues are where many other farrier's and veterinarians teach and demonstrate this "by the book" stuff. And yeah, a few of them occasionally show up wearing suits and ties. I never really cared much about what they wore, as long as I could learn something. Perhaps your attendance at such venues is over-stated.

Good luck with you and your business.
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And to you yours.

Cheers,
Mark
 

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Wow Mark. I wasn't looking for a fight. I never said that the way you explain things was wrong only that I wish that you would explain your terminology a little less fancy. I am ending this and yes walking away. Finding your attitude is a wee more "I'm better than tho", pretty disgusting.
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Just my opinion, but it sure "read" like you were looking for one...
 

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Wow Mark. I wasn't looking for a fight.
We're not "fighting".

You expressed a desire that I simplify terminology. I explained that correct terminology is important and encouraged you to learn, regardless your age.

Finding your attitude is a wee more "I'm better than tho", pretty disgusting.
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When it comes to shoeing a horse, I probably am a bit "better than thou". That's okay. I'm sure there are lot's of things where you could demonstrate you are "better than me".

We learn best from those whose experience, skill and knowledge exceed our own. There is always someone better, no matter what your endeavor in life. Seek them out and challenge yourself to learn.

Cheers,
Mark
 

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Mark I love reading your posts and have learned tons about hooves & hoof care because of the info that you post, the wording that you use, and the way that you explain it. If I don't "get" a word Google is my god lmao. Keep it up please =)
 
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