[TheyLendUsWings]

I've had this gelding for 2 years and his aggression has gotten alot worse.
When i bought him i was inexperienced (dumb i know). i was just starting out and wanting a second horse that i could ride, since my primary horse was a 9 month old colt (now 3 years old). Well i found this big 16hh spotted saddle (durango) gelding for sale, and fell in love. ended up buying him and his pasture mate, a 9 year old walking horse. When i went and seen and rode the horses, the owners told us they were well broke, bomb-proof horses. HUGE LIE. the first few weeks were good, i could ride durango bareback, lunge him, ride him on the roads by my house, at that point i lived in TN, and shortly after moved to Ohio. i started noticing that he was pushy on the ground and hard mouthed when riding, no big deal i thought, i could have a trainer fix that. His previous owners weren't the best, and they let him get away with everything he wanted.
When i moved to Ohio and put him on a big pasture is when the aggression really started, i'd go out to get my younger horse to work him, and durango would come in-between me and my other gelding, not knowing much about horses at the time, i just figured he wanted some love, so i petted him and walked around him to get my horse, he let me. But when id start leading my horse to the barn, durango would pin his ears and charge me, nothing else at the time. i worked around it.
He then started turning to kick at people, not just threatening, actually kicking out. Luckily he never actually got anyone, the charging got worse, he got to the point where he would try to bite people.
I became scared, and he stopped me from working with my young horse, because i couldn't separate them.
I lost my confidence around horses, and cried countless times because i couldn't see why he was doing this.
Recently he spent 30 day with a trainer because he has gotten out of hand, my family and i are terrified of this horse. But my mom will not even consider selling him to someone with more knowledge.

after the training, he is still the same, and during training i worked with him a couple of time with the trainer supervising, he charged me while i was lunging him, and no matter what i did wouldn't stop, i almost broke down in tears right there from a panic attack.
since he's been home, he has already kicked someone, charged after my best friend in the pasture, and wouldn't stop until someone ran in. this horse is going to hurt or kill someone if i dont do something with him. i'm going to have another trainer put 30 more days on him. i dont wanna give up on him. but honestly, what would be the smartest thing to do with him at this point? any advice or opinions would be so helpful.

 

[Yogiwick]

Have the trainer talk to your mother. This is serious.

He's not necessarily a bad horse but he needs the right home. You are not that home. Even if he wasn't dangerous (which right now he is, and no more needs to be said) you aren't happy with him.

 

[Luv equins]

He could have lyme disease. I would NOT send him to a trainer! I would have a trainer work with you and your horse. These guys would help you HorseTenders LLC . I would have a vet check him all over and do blood tests and NO SHOTS shot can do brain bamig!

 

[Roperchick]

send him to the trainer, get his kinks worked out, (where he is working steadily and readily for the trainer) and then sell him. it sounds like you two are just not a good fit.

he knows he can intimidate you and get his way. and unless YOU are getting the right training at the same time hes getting his "come to jesus" meeting, then nothing will be solved and once hes back he will revert to his old ways.

 

[Incitatus32]

Is he like this with the trainer? If he is, by all means get him checked for a condition or disease!! If not then it will be much safer to either rehome him to the right home, or euth him. I agree with roperchick. If you decide to work with him work with a trainer and do not be afraid to put the fear of god in him.

I had a horse in the field kick out at me. Thankfully he just barely grazed my hip and knocked me down but I came back up and gave him the biggest, meanest CTJ meeting I ever have given a horse. At one point I do believe the horse actually fell over as I was the first person to ever say "NO!" and he was so shocked. A trainer can talk you through how to do this and intervene if necessary.

 

[Forgotten Horse]

I agree with roper chick as well, he needs a come to jesus meeting. He has your bluff he is running you just like he would run other horses. If this horse were in a big herd and he was not the boss horse if he came flying up to another horse that horse would turn around and kick the day lights out of him and straighten him out, I know it sounds crude but it is what happens in a horse herd, if you don't establish your dominance and you have a confident horse, that horse will become dominant over you. My best mare was that way and I got her before I knew very much about horses and one day she charged me and I had had enough and we had a little chat, she was 5 then, she is now coming 10 and I would sell her for the world. I also had some one bring me a morgan gelding for training and he hada major " im the boss" problem, he would pen his ears and threaten to kick but his biggest issue was biting ( that's my biggest no no) I was saddling him one day and he reached around and grabbed my side ( luckly it was cold and I had layers on) needless to say that horse and I had a little come to jesus meeting, and he slid back and fell down and tried to turn and run, I set in to him just like a lead mare would lay into an unruly 2 year old. I never had another issue with that horse. if you do sell him you should tell people that they are going to have to be the boss with him.

 

[tinyliny]

I've had this gelding for 2 years and his aggression has gotten alot worse.
When i bought him i was inexperienced (dumb i know). i was just starting out and wanting a second horse that i could ride, since my primary horse was a 9 month old colt (now 3 years old). Well i found this big 16hh spotted saddle (durango) gelding for sale, and fell in love. ended up buying him and his pasture mate, a 9 year old walking horse. When i went and seen and rode the horses, the owners told us they were well broke, bomb-proof horses. HUGE LIE. the first few weeks were good, i could ride durango bareback, lunge him, ride him on the roads by my house, at that point i lived in TN, and shortly after moved to Ohio. i started noticing that he was pushy on the ground and hard mouthed when riding, no big deal i thought, i could have a trainer fix that. His previous owners weren't the best, and they let him get away with everything he wanted.
When i moved to Ohio and put him on a big pasture is when the aggression really started, i'd go out to get my younger horse to work him, and durango would come in-between me and my other gelding, not knowing much about horses at the time, i just figured he wanted some love, so i petted him and walked around him to get my horse, he let me. But when id start leading my horse to the barn, durango would pin his ears and charge me, nothing else at the time. i worked around it.
He then started turning to kick at people, not just threatening, actually kicking out. Luckily he never actually got anyone, the charging got worse, he got to the point where he would try to bite people.
I became scared, and he stopped me from working with my young horse, because i couldn't separate them.
I lost my confidence around horses, and cried countless times because i couldn't see why he was doing this.
Recently he spent 30 day with a trainer because he has gotten out of hand, my family and i are terrified of this horse. But my mom will not even consider selling him to someone with more knowledge.

after the training, he is still the same, and during training i worked with him a couple of time with the trainer supervising, he charged me while i was lunging him, and no matter what i did wouldn't stop, i almost broke down in tears right there from a panic attack.
since he's been home, he has already kicked someone, charged after my best friend in the pasture, and wouldn't stop until someone ran in. this horse is going to hurt or kill someone if i dont do something with him. i'm going to have another trainer put 30 more days on him. i dont wanna give up on him. but honestly, what would be the smartest thing to do with him at this point? any advice or opinions would be so helpful.

it is not enough for people to advise you to give him a come-to-Jesus meeting. you have already tried, and have had him scare you badly. it' snot likely to work better next time. don't try it on your own.

either have the trainer work with him with you , too.

or sell him .

if I were you, i'd sell him, with full disclosure. you can learn how to be a stronger leader for a horse, but this guy sounds like a tough one, way more aggressive than typical, so too much for you, and no fun at all.
I'd be scared, too.

 

[TheyLendUsWings]

Thanks to everyone for advice. its not a health issue, i know that for sure. And to everyone saying i should lay into him, i've tried that, he does NOT acknowledge that i have a whip in my hand, even if i have to give him a firm smack with it, instead, he's turn whichever end he wasn't using towards me, and try with that end. the thing is, my mom isn't going to sell him until someone gets hurt by him, thats the only thing that will open her eyes...

 

[tinyliny]

Not that I disagree with what I already said, about you not trying again, but, . . have you seen what really firm looks like? a "smack" is pretty mild on the total scale of how firm a person can be toward a horse, ir circumstances require it.

a whip can really make a lot of noise and that can be quite a deterant to a horse. and, if you are working with a horse that is aggressive, then it's important that you have him on a line, so that if you must smack him good and hard, he is not ABLE to swing his tail around toward you and double barrel you . the rope means you always have control of his head, and if you do, you can prevent him from swinging his hind toward you.

that said, this is WAY too hard for someone that is afraid of him and has already lost round one with him.

why is your mom so set on keeping him?

 

[TheyLendUsWings]

i completely understand your point. and he is the only horse that has been able to tear me apart, and i work with a pro trainer as a co-trainer with different horses. he's just not a good match for me, not compatible with my personality at all.

And she doesn't believe in giving up on animals, i had her convinced to sell him last spring and she changed her mind because the one person she gave a chance wasn't the right home. now she thinks she can take on this horse herself (she has less experience and confidence than i do) and honestly i told her, i can not work with him, every time i try i feel shaky and i panic, and it sets me back in my training, again, everytime. but she needs to do something.

 

[kiwi79]

Have you spoken to his previous owners about this? I know you mentioned that they let him get away with a lot but it sounds like he had a decent amount of respect when you first got him. I cant really help on the training side as I dont have the experience but I don't blame you for being scared to work with him!
Hopefully you get a better result with a different trainer and if not I think I would be refusing to handle him. Maybe your mum will realise its best to part ways with him if it doesn't improve, would hate to hear that it took someone getting injured to make her see this. Good luck!

 

[Kyro]

Maybe you should show your mom this thread: both your original post and the answers. I've had experiences where my mother just doesn't acknowledge that I might be right just because I'm younger and she can just brush me off/not take me seriously. This might seem very weird, but actually happens way more than one would think. For example, I kept explaining to my mom about how her work is taking a toll on her and she should take a break (she hardly got any sleep and was on the computer doing work all the time). It was only when I got other people to chime in that she would take me seriously. I know this isn't the best example, but maybe if your mom sees that MANY very smart horsepeople here have advised you to sell him, then maybe, maybe you really should..

Best of luck with him, you will make the right choice whatever it will be.

 

[Yogiwick]

it is not enough for people to advise you to give him a come-to-Jesus meeting. you have already tried, and have had him scare you badly. it' snot likely to work better next time. don't try it on your own.

either have the trainer work with him with you , too.

or sell him .

if I were you, i'd sell him, with full disclosure. you can learn how to be a stronger leader for a horse, but this guy sounds like a tough one, way more aggressive than typical, so too much for you, and no fun at all.
I'd be scared, too.

Completely agree. This horse is not a "do it yourself" horse. He needs experienced handling. The OP knows she needs to get rid of him and the question was how to talk to her mother, not how to keep him.

Often times pushing the buttons on a horse like this will make them worse not better, the horse knows the OP is afraid. It's just not a match that will work.

Tell your mother you aren't working with him anymore. Suggest she do the same. Then stay away from him. I'll say again, have your trainer talk to your mother. Sometimes having an experienced adult professional say "hey this is too much" means more.

 

[TheyLendUsWings]

Well i talked with her about my conserns, turned out exactly how i thought it would, she got mad at me. Told me i nees to stop hating this horse, and the only reason He's acting like this is because he's stressed from the move. I tried throwing out the "what are you going to do if he hurts or kills someone?" Question, she said even then, she isn't giving up.
Im at a loss here. I told her im not working with him, that im not risking my life over something so easily avoided.

And i would have my trainer talk to her, but she doesn't respect him.

Thanks everyone for trying to help, but i guess im gonna have to sit this out and wait for her to realize what shes doing..

 

[Yogiwick]

Hmmm even if she doesn't respect him it may still work. She's got to respect him somewhat or he wouldn't be working with the horse.

I would go for it, but you know best.

Does she ever actually watch you work him? Sounds like maybe she doesn't realize just how bad it is.

Please make sure NO ONE (except for your mom sounds like) works with him. Maybe embarrass her by having people sign a liability waiver?

 

[Foxhunter]

First, welcome to th forum.

Several things jump out at me.

The first, as you admit, you were inexperienced.

Second, the fact that the horses were well behaved and you could do all you wanted with them, says that the sellers were not liars, it says to me that they were getting away with little things that should have been corrected and weren't so they gradually get worse.

Thirdly, as the horses were well behaved when you got them the previous owners did not allow them to get away with anything. The fact that it took you some time to realise he had a hard mouth also says that because you are a novice, you were probably not balanced with your hands and he was ignoring your aids.

So, unfortunately you have a horse that is boss. He can go to any trainer in the world and be as good as gold but at home he is going to rapidly revert to being the boss and being nasty.

it has nothing whatsoever to do with his move.

So, what to do?

First separate him with electric fencing, away from the other two. That way you can work with them in safety.

Get a trainer to come out on a very regular basis and work with teaching you how to handle the horses on the ground.
You need to learn to 'read' their body language and when they are thinking of doing something, correct it before it happens.

I do agree that this horse needs to be sorted out but neither you nor your mother are experienced enough to do so which is why you need someone to show you how.

One word of warning, if you don't get help with your youngster than odds are that as he matures he will go the same way.

 

[usandpets]

^^ Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[TheyLendUsWings]

First, welcome to th forum.

Several things jump out at me.

The first, as you admit, you were inexperienced.

Second, the fact that the horses were well behaved and you could do all you wanted with them, says that the sellers were not liars, it says to me that they were getting away with little things that should have been corrected and weren't so they gradually get worse.

Thirdly, as the horses were well behaved when you got them the previous owners did not allow them to get away with anything. The fact that it took you some time to realise he had a hard mouth also says that because you are a novice, you were probably not balanced with your hands and he was ignoring your aids.

So, unfortunately you have a horse that is boss. He can go to any trainer in the world and be as good as gold but at home he is going to rapidly revert to being the boss and being nasty.

it has nothing whatsoever to do with his move.

So, what to do?

First separate him with electric fencing, away from the other two. That way you can work with them in safety.

Get a trainer to come out on a very regular basis and work with teaching you how to handle the horses on the ground.
You need to learn to 'read' their body language and when they are thinking of doing something, correct it before it happens.

I do agree that this horse needs to be sorted out but neither you nor your mother are experienced enough to do so which is why you need someone to show you how.

One word of warning, if you don't get help with your youngster than odds are that as he matures he will go the same way.

Well they weren't exactly "well behaved" looking back there were signs that i would have seen if i knew then what i know now. previous owners could have warned us about some of these behaviours before hand. i can say that durango has gotten worse because we didnt know anything, but he was disrespectful to begin with. and im now working with a trainer, so my younger boy is, always has been and will continue to be respectful.

 

[Luv equins]

Is he a gelding?

 

[Reiningcatsanddogs]

If you can, don't just "send" him to the trainer's, go and watch. You will learn a lot about your horse and horses in general.

That pushy stuff at the beginning needed to be corrected on the spot.