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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, so first off, kudos to everyone who can get those great hoof pics Faceman, Loosie and the others love! It isn't easy!
So I think on the whole, that my 3 1/2 year old mare has good hooves. We have mega rocks and such here, and she is barefoot and never complains.
I know my pics aren't the best, I will aim for better ones later. I am mostly curious as to everyone's thoughts on her bars and the slight flaring she gets on the outer sides of her fronts. And if they look like they are well trimmed, time frame and actual trimming wise.
I *promise* I will try to get better pics when she cooperates better and I can have my husband to help hold her still on a good flat and clean surface (which we don't have many of!). And I will get some of the nifty full body from the side and such type shots also.
The pics are in the following order, I think!
Left Front
Right Front
Left Hind
Right Hind
 

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No comments, but would sure like my horse to have big honkin' frogs like those! Those are some nice hooves.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Okay, so her massive frogs are good then, huh? Good to know! They aren't the softest right now, since its so dry here (eastern WA). And they are starting to crack a decent bit, but I imagine that is just the dryness.
Thanks!
 

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They are just shedding a bit, along with the sole on that last pic. That's what the cracks are. Dry feet are much better than wet feet where soles are concerned. do you trim these yourself?

The only thing I see that raises concern is the crack in each central sulcus of the frogs. Technically there should be no crack there and usually indicates thrush or other infection. Can you get a hoof pick into those cracks or are they more superficial than they look?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No, I don't trim them myself, would love to learn though! I do attempt to rasp them, though- much harder and more awkward than I though it would be!
I was wondering the same thing about the sulcus crack! They have pretty much been that way the whole time I have had her (10 months or so), and I have never thought I could get the pick in there. But I will her out again tonight and check it closer. I am 99% sure they are superficial/trick of my bad angling. Or so I hope! I saw your post with Puck (I assume your horse's name), I hope you can get him shoeless! Did you try boots at all yet? I wasn't able to read the full post.
Thanks!
 

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Yes, I messed with boots for 6 painful months before giving up on finding anything that would stay on no matter what. Boots and eventing just don't go together.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I actually was wondering about the eventing with boos part- I couldn't remember what you said you evented in, and wasn't sure if you even were allowed boots.
Oh, and before I forget- I did check, its a trick of the eye, I think. I am no expert, but I cant get any more hoof pick in there than I feel like I should just for cleaning purposes, and its quite hard also. All good right?
 

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Yeah, on the whole, I agree they don't look bad. But for an accurate critique, need some different angles too - you know where to find tips on that I'm sure! ;-) - and it would be best to post pics of freshly trimmed hooves, especially if you want any kind of opinion on the trim job.

What concerns me most is the crack of the central sulcus, as Puck mentioned, which may indicate thrush(so I'd also pare the overhangs of frog away), and yes, it does appear her front(you missed the front left) is a bit flared, not just on the lateral quarter.

While it sounds like she's going well, do remember that horses are stoic animals who often don't show any obvious discomfort unless problems are acute or chronic. Also horses don't *begin* to develop the fibrocartilage in their digital cushions necessary to give really good support until they're around 4yo, so while her heels look ok, they're also not yet very strong. So bearing those points in mind, I'd be considerate of where/how you work her.

Oh & BTW, looking at your last pic above, isn't it funny how far away her front foot looks?? :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah, on the whole, I agree they don't look bad. But for an accurate critique, need some different angles too - you know where to find tips on that I'm sure! ;-) - and it would be best to post pics of freshly trimmed hooves, especially if you want any kind of opinion on the trim job.

What concerns me most is the crack of the central sulcus, as Puck mentioned, which may indicate thrush(so I'd also pare the overhangs of frog away), and yes, it does appear her front(you missed the front left) is a bit flared, not just on the lateral quarter.

While it sounds like she's going well, do remember that horses are stoic animals who often don't show any obvious discomfort unless problems are acute or chronic. Also horses don't *begin* to develop the fibrocartilage in their digital cushions necessary to give really good support until they're around 4yo, so while her heels look ok, they're also not yet very strong. So bearing those points in mind, I'd be considerate of where/how you work her.

Oh & BTW, looking at your last pic above, isn't it funny how far away her front foot looks?? :lol:
It does look like she is some freak of a limo horse huh? My poor little 14.2 pony lol. I think I had pulled her leg back into the sun for a better pic. :)
Okay, so for the paring away of the frog, you mean to kinda cut that away on the outsides of the frog, towards the bars and the collateral grooves? Making that clean collateral groove line that the farrier would do? Do you also mean to pare away its surface too? Its very rocky here, and that would kinda worry me. I had thought her fat frogs were in response to this?
As for her sulcus, how can one tell what is considered too deep? I can get my pick in there a bit, but aren't you supposed to be able to do that a small amount? She is kept in dry conditions, so thrush would surprise me, also how does one check for thrush? I will also attach a pic of her same hoof from April12 for reference for you. The sulcus is definitely diff but I had assumed it was okay still, as in June she went from wettish, softer coastal SC to drier, harder, rockier Eastern WA. Her hooves went through a lot of changes due to ground diffs I had assumed.

I will get pics of freshly trimmed hooves in the next few weeks. The farrier I had found here says that because its so rocky and sandy, she moves around in her pastures a lot, and normally gets ridden fairly often, that she would self wear and have nothing for him to do except every 10-12 weeks. A lot of pasture kept/used horses locally are this way due to the rocky dry terrain, he says. She is on week 9 in those photos. And when he had come, he clipped very little and just rasped and mustang rolled a bit.
Bearing in mind, I realize, that I need better pics, but what would you recommend she definitely get done when he comes next time?
I worry a bit about her flares, but it just seems to be her hoof shape, based off old farrier and new. And I have read that you can't go changing hoof shape that much on relatively benign things without creating more issues, correct? And I have read about folded over bars, but I can't exactly tell in her pic, can you? Are they just worn away? (Which is good, right?)
Okay, I think that is a lot for now!
Thank you! :)
And I will have my husband hopefully help me get better pics this weekend.
 

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Okay, so for the paring away of the frog, you mean to kinda cut that away on the outsides of the frog, towards the bars and the collateral grooves? Making that clean collateral groove line that the farrier would do? Do you also mean to pare away its surface too? Its very rocky here, and that would kinda worry me.
Yes, cutting away the flappy bits covering the collateral grooves near the heels. No, I don't think you need to go to the extreme some farriers do & carve it nice & neat & no, not the surface - you're right that the good calloused material is just the 'armour plating' she needs for rocky ground. Basically put, I don't pare frogs as a rule, but any flappy or cruddy bits, or 'overhangs' like near the heels that can harbour bacteria I'd trim off. That might go for opening up the central sulcii a bit too, but I wouldn't want to go just off a pic for advising that generally.

As for her sulcus, how can one tell what is considered too deep? .... She is kept in dry conditions, so thrush would surprise me, also how does one check for thrush?[/quote]

If the sulcii are closed 'butt cracks' as it appears hers are, this is *potentially*(not nec) a problem. There shouldn't be a crack. Regardless of dry environment thrush can still happen. While sudden big environmental changes could be the reason(going from waterlogged to hard & dry), I'd suspect thrush because of the crack. Even if it's been completely dry where you are, the sides of the frog near the heel that are covered and the central sulcii being closed would provide for enough moisture for bugs to thrive. If there's white crumbly type material or black goop, this is likely necrotic material left over from thrush. But I would just go ahead and treat those feet, to be sure. Spraying them with t-tree oil(diluted) or something else broad spectrum but non-necrotising would be my choice.

She is on week 9 in those photos. And when he had come, he clipped very little and just rasped and mustang rolled a bit.
Bearing in mind, I realize, that I need better pics, but what would you recommend she definitely get done when he comes next time?
Yeah, if that's week 9, she seems to be 'self trimming' adequately & that's great. But most horses even if they do self trim enough, get a bit imbalanced & need regular maintenance to stay in shape. It is a good idea to have feet trimmed regularly enough to *maintain* the form, rather than allowing them to overgrow too much before 'correcting'. So nippers 'shouldn't' be necessary at all for a regular trim, just rasp & knife. Of course, the 'real world' does have a habit of getting in the way of carefully laid plans tho!:lol:

So... I think they look a bit overdue for a 'touch up' but obviously there is little to do. I would keep the outer walls rolled more frequently to prevent the chipping, pare the daggy bits of frog and keep the bars shorter than that - to just about sole level. In addition, I might keep the fronts bevelled/backed up a little more & 'scoop' the quarters a tad - hard to tell with that angle. I'd not generally pare any of that flaky looking sole, but leave it for extra protection - tho it looks like it'll probably fall out soon anyway. Your farrier may be willing to show you how to 'brush up' in between his visits, to keep them a little neater. BTW, might be just the pic but her walls do look thin, which is likely a nutritional thing.

I worry a bit about her flares, but it just seems to be her hoof shape, ... can't go changing hoof shape that much on relatively benign things ... folded over bars, but I can't exactly tell in her pic, can you?
No, flares aren't just 'her hoof shape', they are indicative of mechanical &/or metabolic problems causing the hoof walls to 'give out' under pressure. Yes, you can change hoof shape & get them in healthy form again(that is, take care of the mechanics) *generally* - there are some exceptions - whether minor or major deformation is present. You can definitely address things like flaring, & pretty quickly too. I wouldn't consider flares to be 'benign' either as a rule, because if left unmanaged, they will become more problematic. Some probs do need to be handled/changed very gradually with 'little & often' trimming, but it doesn't appear anything major is going on with her(based only on a few pics of course). Yes, her bars are a little 'folded over' by the look of things. Not hugely, but I would want to keep them shorter, about sole level, considering hard, rocky terrain.

You might get a better idea of what can/should be done for optimum hoof form looking at Mayfield Barehoof Care Centre Home Page & the case studies - be prepared to be shocked if you haven't seen chronic/very severe probs rehabbed!:wink: Other good sites to learn from include hoofrehab.com & barefoothorse.com
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sounds good on the frogs.
[/quote]
If the sulcii are closed 'butt cracks' as it appears hers are, this is *potentially*(not nec) a problem. There shouldn't be a crack. Regardless of dry environment thrush can still happen. While sudden big environmental changes could be the reason(going from waterlogged to hard & dry), I'd suspect thrush because of the crack. Even if it's been completely dry where you are, the sides of the frog near the heel that are covered and the central sulcii being closed would provide for enough moisture for bugs to thrive. If there's white crumbly type material or black goop, this is likely necrotic material left over from thrush. But I would just go ahead and treat those feet, to be sure. Spraying them with t-tree oil(diluted) or something else broad spectrum but non-necrotising would be my choice.[/quote]
Just plain tea tree that I dilute- don;t bother with any horse specific products? Lets make it easy- tell me what you like, and I will go look for it or similar. :)



[/quote]Yeah, if that's week 9, she seems to be 'self trimming' adequately & that's great. But most horses even if they do self trim enough, get a bit imbalanced & need regular maintenance to stay in shape. It is a good idea to have feet trimmed regularly enough to *maintain* the form, rather than allowing them to overgrow too much before 'correcting'. So nippers 'shouldn't' be necessary at all for a regular trim, just rasp & knife. Of course, the 'real world' does have a habit of getting in the way of carefully laid plans tho!:lol:

So... I think they look a bit overdue for a 'touch up' but obviously there is little to do. I would keep the outer walls rolled more frequently to prevent the chipping, pare the daggy bits of frog and keep the bars shorter than that - to just about sole level. In addition, I might keep the fronts bevelled/backed up a little more & 'scoop' the quarters a tad - hard to tell with that angle. I'd not generally pare any of that flaky looking sole, but leave it for extra protection - tho it looks like it'll probably fall out soon anyway. Your farrier may be willing to show you how to 'brush up' in between his visits, to keep them a little neater. BTW, might be just the pic but her walls do look thin, which is likely a nutritional thing. [/quote]

Its that lack of not much to do, I think that makes the farrier only want to come out every 10-12 weeks. How would I go about scooping the quarters? Should I? I have only a rasp, and honestly, am not so great at it, beyond filing away chips, by my husband can get in there with it a bit stronger than I.
Yes, I didn't know until the farrier told me, but she does have thin walls. She has been on Gran Hoof for about a month now, and I just ordered them a multi-vite also. I assume the Gran Hoof will hopefully go far in fixing this? Though I do understand that it will certainly take time, months, etc for it to start showing it works. Diet- they get orchard, alfalfa, and oat hay, along with what's left and drying up in the fields, and a bit of wet COB/whole oats mixed to get the supplement.

[/quote]
No, flares aren't just 'her hoof shape', they are indicative of mechanical &/or metabolic problems causing the hoof walls to 'give out' under pressure. Yes, you can change hoof shape & get them in healthy form again(that is, take care of the mechanics) *generally* - there are some exceptions - whether minor or major deformation is present. You can definitely address things like flaring, & pretty quickly too. I wouldn't consider flares to be 'benign' either as a rule, because if left unmanaged, they will become more problematic. Some probs do need to be handled/changed very gradually with 'little & often' trimming, but it doesn't appear anything major is going on with her(based only on a few pics of course). Yes, her bars are a little 'folded over' by the look of things. Not hugely, but I would want to keep them shorter, about sole level, considering hard, rocky terrain. [/quote]

I will have the farrier come out in the next week or so and get her hooves cleaned up. :) And I will be sure to ask after her flaring and her bars.
[/quote]
You might get a better idea of what can/should be done for optimum hoof form looking at Mayfield Barehoof Care Centre Home Page & the case studies - be prepared to be shocked if you haven't seen chronic/very severe probs rehabbed!:wink: Other good sites to learn from include hoofrehab.com & barefoothorse.com[/QUOTE]

I have seen the barefoothorse.com, not the other site, I will go check it out, thank you!
And also thank you for all of your comments and help!
(** I hope my attempt to multi-quote worked! If it didn't I am sorry, as I am sure it will be very messy!)
 

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Just plain tea tree
Yes, t-tree, or eucalyptus oil is another supposed to be on par for antiseptic qualities that doesn't harm live tissue.

Its that lack of not much to do, I think that makes the farrier only want to come out every 10-12 weeks. How would I go about scooping the quarters? Should I? I have only a rasp, and honestly, am not so great at it, beyond filing away chips, by my husband can get in there with it a bit stronger than I.
Probably more about the farrier expecting clients to be unhappy with him not doing much - he should be happy to be called out more often for easier jobs!:wink: But you may not need him more often, if you're willing to do it yourself. While it's not rocket science, I would advise learning the theory & principles for yourself first though at least, as there's no 'recipe' to follow. The specifics are very subjective & there are generally many exceptions to any 'rule'. Not to mention there are different theories & approaches & I don't advise you just take my - or anyone else's - advice blindly.

That said, with regard to wall height above sole, as a rule, the 'recipe' is balancing according to the (live) sole plane - so if you look at it, you will likely find the sole at the quarters is a bit receded compared to the heels & toes, especially in back feet. The quarters should be approx sole level(on hard footing) like the rest of the foot, so 'scooping' quarters just means doing this if/as necessary according to what the sole 'tells' you.

Oh & re your husband's strength, it's best not to put any force behind the rasp, but let it do the work for you.:wink:

She has been on Gran Hoof for about a month now, and I just ordered them a multi-vite also. I assume the Gran Hoof will hopefully go far in fixing this? Though I do understand that it will certainly take time, months, etc for it to start showing it works. Diet- they get orchard, alfalfa, and oat hay, along with what's left and drying up in the fields, and a bit of wet COB/whole oats mixed to get the supplement.
Guessing you mean Grand Hoof? I don't know that product specifically, I am not a nutritionist and it will also depend on what she's getting in her diet as to what needs to be supp'd to balance it. So a diet analysis is best. I personally use - & highly recommend - FeedXL Horse Nutrition: The D.I.Y. equine diet planner & have found that (good quality) 'complete' supplements tends to balance nutrition better than hoof-specific ones. Re diet, 'COB' is corn, oats & barley? If so, I'd ditch that(corn is super high in starch) & would also avoid the oats unless there was a particular need.
 
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