[dylan winter]

I have only ever owneed one Appaloosa - he was a fine looking horse who made it along the Oregon trail with me without losing a days work

he was fantastic at walking long distances - not fast but reliable

but cross country at any sort of speed and he would find a gopher hole to drop his foot in and put in a really dramatic stumble

Unless you put the bucket under his nose he could never find it.

could never find a gate he had been through several times.

He was much happier being a pack horse than a lead horse

The paint quarter horse I used for the same trip lost several days work through feet problems - but he was a fantastic ride. If travelling fast across country and he found his foot going down a hole he would do a flying lead change

felt completely safe on him.

In my limited experience Appaloosa - dim but reliable

Quarter Horse - not as tough, but with a canter to die for and a real brain between the ears.

never yet seen an Appie being used for brain work such as cutting, team penning or at a cowboy rodeo

Dylan

 

[crimsonsky]

um.... interesting. was there a point here or are you asking a question or... ? sorry i'm confused.

 

[dylan winter]

pure curiousity

um.... interesting. was there a point here or are you asking a question or... ? sorry i'm confused.

Apologies for confusing you

I was just asking a question as the founding chairman of BATEAW

(British Association for the Testing of Equine Accepted Wisdom)

Dylan

 

[NdAppy]

Apparently you haven't looked very hard. You just happened to have an appy that was slow. The same description you gave of your appy could be given about any horse in any breed.

As for the brains... There are many out there that have more brains than the people that own them.

 

[Golden Horse]

Mmmm methinks your Appy trained you well, got you to put the bucket under his nose, got out of fast work by theatrical stumbles, preferred to chill out rather than lead the way.

My Appy is not thick, my Arab is the most laid back of all my horses, my Haflinger is the hottest and most spooky.

I have a Jack Russel Terrier who isn't a terror, a hound dog who doesn't roam!

I guess the critters around here haven't read their breed descriptions, and I treat each according to their individual personality rather than on a broad generality of type.

 

[kevinshorses]

I don't think that your experiences with the horses you have ridden is indicitive of thier breeds. My father-in-law has a paint gelding that is probably dumber by an order of magnitude than your appy. I have a QH gelding that is tougher than any horse I've ever seen but I've ridden others that wanted to lay down and quit before you were out of sight of the trailer. It happens with gender as well as breed. Somebody has owned three horses in the last 15 years and conceeds that since he liked the two geldings more than the one mare that ALL mares are inferior to ALL geldings. You don't have to be a statistician to be able to tear that theory down yet many people believe that way.

 

[PerchiesKisses]

I have had the pleasure of knowing 3 appies well, and 1 more from a distance.

There was Dixie, Daisy, Chalupa, and Addias.

Dixie - Percheron-crossed and athletic. One of the fastest horses I've known, and enjoys jumping. Quick to learn many things, especially things she shouldn't know. She was taught to rear in the span of one ride and still knows the cue, despite our trying to reteach her NOT to rear :eyeroll:

Daisy - Percheron-crossed as well. Full sister to Dixie. Definitely not the brightest bulb... we encountered a moose on a trail ride once. All 5 of the horses with us stood blowing and snorting at the moose, but Daisy stared at the exact opposite side of the trail, snorting and frozen in spot .... there was nothing there but wide open field and trees. But she is the sweetest horse ever born. I learned to ride bareback on her, and she was kind and forgiving. Would stand forever to be mounted. Would slow down when I was slipping off. And would stop and wait when I fell to the ground.

Chalupa - Another draft cross - way... WAY too smart for his own good. He's been known to climb under rope gates. He learns bad habits super fast, and learns good habits very slowly lol. He's very athletic, and well put together. With a mind that wanders spiradically, and extremely spooky, he is a challenge to work with. But he can jump, and he is fast, and he keeps us all wondering just what he could do if he could just settle down and focus for ten minutes.

Addias - appyXmutthorse - only rode her a couple times - Ugly as sin, and fast as a bullet. Addias learns patterns, not cues. She knows barrels, poles, and gaming. Just don't interrupt her train of thought because she doesn't understand the concept of "whoa".

Those are the appies I've met, although none are pure. All but one I really like, and all are very different.

 

[kiwigirl]

Hey there Dylan, you are new to the horse forum and may not yet realise that the majority of people here are from the USA. Except me, I'm from NZ. I have been coming to this forum for a while now and I have to say that in that time, through various threads I have read about Appies being used in many different disciplines (some excelling by the way). Perhaps the exposure you get to rodeos, and the horses that participate in them is a bit limited in the UK, as opposed to the rodeo culture that exists throughout the USA. If you look hard enough on the web you are going to find Appaloosa bloodlines that excel at all of the rodeo disciplines.

Personally I think you're best to take horse intelligence horse by horse rather than try to judge brains by breed standard. Bare in mind that training and handling have a huge amount of impact on the perceived "intelligence" of an animal. Sometimes the most "lazy" and uncooperative horses are the smartest, they have learned very quickly exactly how to get a human to stop trying to push them around.

Personally I know some people, who ride horses, that are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, however does that make all people who ride horses dim?

 

[tinyliny]

Mac, the Subaru of horses. He can jump, trail ride, do a wee bit of dressage and barrels and WP. Do it all, but not super well.

No, he is so NOT thick or stupid. He is really smart. I swear I can hear him plotting in his mind as we go down the trail how to convince me to take the shortcut home.
Today when I went to get him in the lower 40 he had, once again, jumped over the 3.5 foot chainlink fence into the blueberry patch, where the grass is greener. From a near standstill. Wouldn't jump out for me so I had to lift the hotwire and have him go under it. He knew that wire is normally hot, and went under that wire like zoom!

Rode almost 3 hours today on the trails; jumping logs, trotting and cantering around corners up and down hills in a group of 4 horses. I am exhausted, but Mac, 18, is fine.
I have great respect for Appies.

 

[reiningfan]

I have 9 Appaloosas here and let me tell you, not a one of them has a dimly lit bulb. I would even say that they are some of the smartest horses I have encountered. I have some of different types and some are better at certain things than others, but they all have their strengths, just like horses of any other breed.

 

[bsms]

"In my limited experience Appaloosa - dim but reliable"

Mine is fine, but then, we have lots of sun in southern Arizona. Maybe if I put him where it rains 6 times a day, his brain would rot. I spent 3 1/2 years at RAF Upper Heyford north of Oxford. I felt like my brain was rotting, too.

 

[dylan winter]

Appies not thick then

the answer is clearly no then.....

and I agree with those who say you should take every horse as an individual


- in theory

However, intelligence is an inherited feature - just as hairy legs or an ugly nose are inherited.

I think that anyone who suggests that the average Clydesdal has the same mindset as the average Arab might be slightly deluded

it seems logical to me that horse breeds that have developed over the years - maybe centuries in the case of the welsh cob or thoroughbred or Arab will have certain physical characteristics - and I put it to you that along with that selection will go some brain breeding as well

It was interesting that people talked about their appy crosses....


As some-one who has worked with hundreds of horses over the years then it is perfectly sensible to make a few assumptions about a horse that is new to you - it helps to survive.



If you are walking along a dark street at night and you see a big bloke dressed in black coming towards you then you might do well to cross to the other pavement

of course he could be the local vicar on his way home....

so there is breed variation in morphology - why not brain power

Dylan

 

[NdAppy]

dylan,

I am beginning to think that no matter what anyone tells you, you already have your opinion formed of the breed. That tends to make your posts look really asinine and have the attitude of "LALALA I can't hear you!"

 

[bsms]

"It seems logical to me that horse breeds that have developed over the years - maybe centuries in the case of the welsh cob or thoroughbred or Arab will have certain physical characteristics - and I put it to you that along with that selection will go some brain breeding as well"

Appies are a new breed. And they still allow crossing with Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds and Arabians.

"A significant crossbreeding influence used to revitalize the Appaloosa was the Arabian horse, as evidenced by early registration lists that show Arabian-Appaloosa crossbreeds as ten of the first fifteen horses registered with the ApHC...In 1983 the ApHC reduced the number of allowable outcrosses to three main breeds: the Arabian horse, the American Quarter Horse and the Thoroughbred... All ApHC-registered Appaloosas must be the offspring of two registered Appaloosa parents or a registered Appaloosa and a horse from an approved breed registry, which includes Arabian horses, Quarter Horses, and Thoroughbreds. In all cases, one parent must always be a regular registered Appaloosa. The only exception to the bloodline requirements is in the case of Appaloosa-colored geldings or spayed mares with unknown pedigrees; owners may apply for "hardship registration" for these non-breeding horses."

Appaloosa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My Appaloosa is not registered, but I could if I wanted to spend the money. His sire was an Appy/Arabian mix, and his dam a purebred Arabian. So he is 3/4 Arabian by breeding (and standing next to a purebred Arabian):

In any case, it seems a bit odd to develop an opinion of a breed based off a sample size of one...

 

[Chiilaa]

I do think Appies are a bit thicker than say Arabians, or TBs. They are a stocky breed, thickness of girth and butt is to be expected...

 

[dylan winter]

thanks you

dylan,

I am beginning to think that no matter what anyone tells you, you already have your opinion formed of the breed. That tends to make your posts look really asinine and have the attitude of "LALALA I can't hear you!"

thank you for your lovely comments

and for deciding what I think

if you read what I have actually written, rather than what you assume I am thinking, you will see that my mind is still open to intelligent debate.

insults are not terribly useful - but if they make you happy....well this is a forum

I am very prepared to accept not all horses in the same breed think the same way

and indeed some people may assert that mind-set and intelligence in horses is not influenced at all by breed.

My push bike has three gears and is painted black - that does not mean that I beleive that all bikes have three gears and are painted black.

I had an appaloosa that was dimmer than the quarter horses I have worked with

that does not mean that I suddenly think all appies are dozy just as I don't think all quarter horses are biddable and intelligent

but thank you for your input - most illuminating


if you read what I have written I have just asked questions - in a previous thread I mentioned that the only hancock I had ever come across was a bit of a bucker - I asked if they often were - and yes it seems from the reponses that Hancocks - not all Hancocks of course - have a tendency to buck.

Clearly all Appies are very clever

Dylan

 

[Faceman]

thank you for your lovely comments

and for deciding what I think

if you read what I have actually written, rather than what you assume I am thinking, you will see that my mind is still open to intelligent debate.

insults are not terribly useful - but if they make you happy....well this is a forum

I am very prepared to accept not all horses in the same breed think the same way

and indeed some people may assert that mind-set and intelligence in horses is not influenced at all by breed.

My push bike has three gears and is painted black - that does not mean that I beleive that all bikes have three gears and are painted black.

I had an appaloosa that was dimmer than the quarter horses I have worked with

that does not mean that I suddenly think all appies are dozy just as I don't think all quarter horses are biddable and intelligent

but thank you for your input - most illuminating


if you read what I have written I have just asked questions - in a previous thread I mentioned that the only hancock I had ever come across was a bit of a bucker - I asked if they often were - and yes it seems from the reponses that Hancocks - not all Hancocks of course - have a tendency to buck.

Clearly all Appies are very clever

Dylan

The mistake you are making, and you are making a mistake, is one that many people make - treating Appys as a pure breed.

BSMS is of course incorrect - Appys are not a new breed unless you are comparing them to Arabs. They are an older breed than Quarterhorses, Morgans, and similar recent breeds, and are likely about the same vintage as Thoroughbreds.

However, the "breed" as it exists today, as a result of ApHC's registration policies, is not a pure breed but rather a mutt breed. As it is not a pure breed, one cannot make assumptions about conformation or disposition - that would be like making the same assumptions about mustangs or grade horses.

An Appy that is actually mostly Appy will have a different conformation and disposition baseline than one that is mostly Quarterhorse or one that is mostly Arab, and obviously understandably so.

The bottom line is you are trying to make generalizations about something that cannot be generalized, because it is not homogenous. Again, that is a common mistake among people that do not have that much knowledge of Appys...

 

[bsms]

My reference was to the breed as it is registered. Until a breed is registered, it isn't a breed - just a bunch of horses with common characteristics.

In any case, if I posted a thread asking if all Quarter Horses were lumbering idiots and based it off of having ridden a Quarter Horse that was...I'd expect a few tense replies! It is kind of like standing up in a PTA meeting and saying you recently saw an ugly kid with red hair, and asking if parents of kids with red hair had to get used to people screaming at their children's hideousness. A few parents might have a negative reaction...

An open ended question - "What are Appies like? How would you rate them for intelligence, trainability and whatever?" - would get replies with less tension in them.

And before someone has a hissy fit, I think Quarter Horses are a great breed. If I ever breed my Arabian mare, it will be to a Quarter Horse. My 3/4 Arabian Appy is a wonderful horse, easy to train and eager to please. That doesn't mean he's a genius - any discussion of intelligence needs to include what one means by intelligent. The smartest dog I've owned was also the hardest to train, since he had his own opinion.

 

[dylan winter]

well said - good point

The mistake you are making, and you are making a mistake, is one that many people make - treating Appys as a pure breed.

BSMS is of course incorrect - Appys are not a new breed unless you are comparing them to Arabs. They are an older breed than Quarterhorses, Morgans, and similar recent breeds, and are likely about the same vintage as Thoroughbreds.

However, the "breed" as it exists today, as a result of ApHC's registration policies, is not a pure breed but rather a mutt breed. As it is not a pure breed, one cannot make assumptions about conformation or disposition - that would be like making the same assumptions about mustangs or grade horses.

An Appy that is actually mostly Appy will have a different conformation and disposition baseline than one that is mostly Quarterhorse or one that is mostly Arab, and obviously understandably so.

The bottom line is you are trying to make generalizations about something that cannot be generalized, because it is not homogenous. Again, that is a common mistake among people that do not have that much knowledge of Appys...

well written -

logical

and informative

all done without recourse to insults

thank you

Dylan

 

[Speed Racer]

The smartest dog I've owned was also the hardest to train, since he had his own opinion.

That's how my Arabian gelding was to train. Smartest horse I've ever owned and a real ****er to train, because he has to be convinced to do things. :wink:

My dog on the other hand, is as dumb as a post. Sweet dog, but she's not going to win any intelligence tests!