[Rowzy]

I am 90% sure my horse is arena sour. This has actually been going on for over 3 months. He all of a sudden started acting up in the arena, and hasn't been normal since then. I know at one point near the begining of this he was sore for some unknown reason. The vet gave me bute to give to him for a week until the soreness went away. Then I was able to take him on a trail ride where he was a perfect angel. My trainer, who came home for college break, was able to work with him and get him to work normally. Then I had surgery and he sat for a month before my friend was able to work with him. Now he is acting up again in the arena, and worse then he was before. She cannot get him to do more then a walk. He kicks out, then crow hops, then actually bucks if she keeps asking him to trot. She is a very experianced horse owner, but isn't a trainer, and she can't ride him more then once a week. I can't ride him at all because of my recent surgery if I was to get tossed I would be screwed.

So... all you people that know more about training then I do, what do you reccomend doing to train him out of this? My dad wants to sell him "because hes not safe," but I was hoping there was another way around this. The last resort would be to send him to a trainer because they cost 500+ a month (usually not including board) and I cant afford that right now.

 

[aintnocitygirl]

Horses act up when they are not worked with enough. I have experienced naughty horses & most of the time it is because they are only being ridden once a week. Ask your friend to work on lunging in a round pen (If you have one.) & walking around in the arena on foot (Halter & lead.) before mounting up. It is good to get your horse's mind on their rider before mounting up. To me, it really does sound like he is just full of energy from not being worked with. Don't worry about it too much, you'll be back in the saddle in no time & will be able to work him again. The more the horse is worked with, the better they get.
If he always has been bad in arenas, try doing different things in the arena besides riding. Try lunging him in it or let him loose in it for a little while to explore. Make it an enjoyable place & let him know that the arena always doesn't mean "riding."
Goodluck. :wink:

 

[Rowzy]

He won't lunge either. He strikes out when being lunged. This behavior started when he was being worked 3+ times a week, and was excentuated because of not being worked. If I let him loose in it he tries to graze on the grass thats growing through the sand, and I'm worried about him ingesting the sand and colicing. If I ask him to walk on and not graze he strikes out.
Sorry if this sounds like I'm just being negative about everything, just trying to explane more fully what is going on.

 

[aintnocitygirl]

I totally understand! :wink:
Try going back to basic ground work & working on building up his trust for you. Sounds like he is a naughty pony & has no respect for anyone (Sorry... gotta be honest.). I highly recommend looking into Clinton Anderson's natural horsemanship methods. They worked miracles on my paint mare who was also a pain in the back end. Take a look at this: Establishing Respect and Control :: Downunder Horsemanship
I have this book & have gone through all the steps in it. Its easy, a heck of a lot of fun, & I noticed a huge difference in my horse after a month of working on it with her.
If I owned your horse, I would be doing a lot of ground work with him before even thinking about putting the saddle on him. He needs to learn to respect you.
You can do it. Choose a goal. Be determined to achieve it. Don't give up. It will all be worth it in the end. Trust me. :wink:

 

[RiosDad]

If he was good trail riding why not just go for long walks in the bush?? He seems happy running trail and I don't blame him. Going round and round in the same old area gets boring for both of you.
If it was me and I was sore like you might be from the surgury I would bit him up with a curb, a tom thumb and good curb strap and take him out. The curb will give you ALOT more control and if used gently is no more then your snaffle but again with alot more control.. He starts anything you can quickly pull him up.

 

[aintnocitygirl]

If he was good trail riding why not just go for long walks in the bush?? He seems happy running trail and I don't blame him. Going round and round in the same old area gets boring for both of you.
If it was me and I was sore like you might be from the surgury I would bit him up with a curb, a tom thumb and good curb strap and take him out. The curb will give you ALOT more control and if used gently is no more then your snaffle but again with alot more control.. He starts anything you can quickly pull him up.

Bigger bits never solve problems. :wink:

 

[Rowzy]

Thank you. I will be working on ground work with him.

As for the bit, he works best in his hackamore then in his bit. He was orignally trained in it and just within the last year was trained to a bit. He has a soft mouth so I'm not using the bit during this time, because I dont want to accidentally pull too hard on his mouth.

 

[PechosGoldenChance]

I have to say, I agree with RiosDad. You don't have to be harsh with it at all, it's just reinforcement. Yet again, Rowzy, if you're afraid of pulling too hard on his mouth, than you are right...you probably shouldn't use the curb until you are more familiar with it. I will say that I am all for natural horsemanship...or should I say I used to be. I realized that most of the time, you just don't have to time for natural horsemanship. Not because you don't literally have the time but because it won't come in handy if you are in an accident. You have to realize that horses are just plain out, freakin dangerous and frankly, I don't want to risk my life with natural horsemanship when I can get the job done in a more benefical way.

 

[aintnocitygirl]

Good luck Rowzy! Keep him in the hackamore... thats the best thing to do for now until you build a strong bond with him through ground work. Now, to the person above me, you can avoid "accidents" if you take the time to work on natural horsemanship. There will be no accidents if you & your horse trust each other. Rowzy, keep him in the hackamore if you don't feel comfortable using the bit. :wink: Take your time with him. Putting more & more gear & harsher bits on him will not solve the problem... trust me.
If you want any tips on some of Clinton's groundwork techniques... message me! I'll be happy to help you & your horse out.

 

[~*~anebel~*~]

So, the horse was sore, you fed him bute and magically he is fine? I have a tough time believing that. Did you ever bother to find out why he was sore and actually treat it?
The reason I say this is because horses in general want to please us and will try their best to do what they think we want. When they are being blatantly disobedient, it is usually not a training issue (except in some extreme circumstances) but that they are in pain and responding to that.
The horse has had a "soreness" issue recently that went basically untreated, this is a huge red light. Get out a vet with more than just bute in his truck and get your horse comfortable. I would get flexion tests, a full physical and his teeth checked. While you're at it, check your saddle/tack fit.

Good luck!

 

[RiosDad]

Bigger bits never solve problems. :wink:

And you know this because of how many years experience???

 

[RiosDad]

I've been around too long, around too many boarding barns to beleive a bond is formed by ground work or any other pussy footing around. I have watched girls raise horses from the day they were born until they are 15-20, nice kind ladies who don't beleive in bits, don't beleive in spurs or anything else that might hurt the horse's feeling and NEVER form a bond. I have also watch lady after lady get OUT of horses because they walked all over them.
I have watch these same mild ladies stand with a riding crop in front of their 15 year old horse and threaten that if they didn't stop pawing in cross ties they would smack them
I have heard these ladies across the barn saying " I love you" to their horses.
But do you know who has the strongest bond with any horse in the barn?? Me, the rought guy, the guy that takes no nonesense, the guy who is not afraid of hurting their guys feelings. That is not just my opinion.
You do not form a bond through always being gentle, always tip toeing around a horse. Be a strong leader, a fair leader, one the horse knows it can not pull crap with and your bond will be stronger.
I rode bitless for 20 years so I know about running bitless but I would not recommend it to anyone posting on here with problems.
YOU got a problem then you are not a strong enough person, a strong enough rider to ride bitless.

Nearly every older lady I know, ones that have been around 25-30 years are ALL out of horses now. I was just too hard on them.
Yes I know one that owns 9 horses but she hasn't ridden a mile in the past year and probably never will again. She's 54, healthy and a horse person. They all talk a good game but getting out and doing is another thing.

Put a good bit in the horses mouth and get out there and ride.
I ride problem horses, runaways, barn sour, buckers,you name it and they all belong to the person who dosn't want to hurt a horse, doens't want to run a bit or uses those stupid rubber/plastic snaffles because they don't want to hurt the mouth.
The young girl who cleans stalls for us just had a bad experience, the arab mare she was riding suddenly took off at a dead run through the bush and she bailed off instead of crashing into a tree. I asked her what bit she was using?? A hackamore?? STupid kid.

Listen to the old guys, the ones that know what they are doing, The ones that are out there day after day.
Bit the horse so you have control and go have fun

 

[Beling]

Poor Rios, so irritated by us older ladies! You have a good point, but may I suggest it's not so much the Big Bit that makes the difference, but the ATTITUDE that goes along with it. A timid PERSON:wink: even with a big bit isn't going to have much communication with an insecure horse. It can make matters worse. But a very confident PERSON with a light snaffle can be effective just by having the commitment to go as far as necessary. Horses can sense this, I believe.

I happen to like the Tom Thumb pelham: with a loose chain, it's not all that severe, but you CAN take hold if/when you need it, without it being real sudden, like with a ported bit.

Agree with anebel to recheck for sensitive areas, and with the others who suggest going back to basics, keeping things easy. Because I don't think this situation needs a heavy hand right now.

 

[aintnocitygirl]

Agree with anebel to recheck for sensitive areas, and with the others who suggest going back to basics, keeping things easy. Because I don't think this situation needs a heavy hand right now.

Exactly. And I would like to make it clear to you Rios, that natural horsemanship is not all "love & cooing" over your horse. There is actually a lot of force involved in natural horsemanship. It is all based on pressure & release. That is how horses learn. Also in natural horsemanship, instead of "smacking your horse with a crop if it doesnt stand still", you would use some training methods such as backing the horse up each time it moves. Add pressure when it moves by backing it up. Release pressure when it stands still. There is force involved in natural horsemanship, you increase the pressure until the horse responds. A lot of people think they gain their horses respect with bigger bits & things to HELP them control their horse. The only way you can really get your horse to trust you is by doing groundwork. If you can't control your horse on the ground there is no way you can do it in the saddle. Horses learn to respect you this way because you are adding pressure, moving their feet, & releasing it as a award when they do it right.
I have to say people who are able to ride with a light snaffle & nothing else have great respect from their horse. People who throw huge bits in their mouth & use a whole bunch of equipment on the horses face are pretending their horse respects them. Actually, it is just causing the horse to not respect the person at all. Yes, all that equipment does work but in the end can cause your horse to become hard headed & stubborn.
Oh ya, & btw. I can ride completely BRIDLEless with my mare.
Have a good day. :wink:

Rowzy, goodluck!

 

[RiosDad]

Poor Rios, so irritated by us older ladies! .

I have baby sat many a lady through her riding career. I helped a lady from breaking her horse to getting it's 1000 mile award in endurance and then I moved on. She up and quit horses when she no longer had me for a baby sitter. IT hurt.
I baby sit two ladies right now. I push them to places they would never dream of going but they do it because I am their protector, they call me that. I have no fear, I always lead the way past threatening things, I keep Rio between danger and them.
I don't mind but when I see kids, adults that don't really know giving poor advice, advice from their hearts, not their heads, not experience it riles me. I spent 12 years in a 40 horse barn and another 11 in a 25 horse barn. I was always the problem solver, the protector, the guide, the horse breaker and it gets a little tiring always leading.
I don't come on here for help, I don't need help. I do it for entertainment and try to pass on some of my knowledge.

Everyone on here with a problem if I could take them under my wing I could help them, I could make them more solid riders, I could show them how. It get frustrating to see the same old problems over and over, know you could help but you have to sit back and listen to the poor advice some others give and just shake your head.

There are some really good riders, some good advice, people like Kevin, smrob, keewgirl , marecare and many others who know, who can do the same as I can. They should be the ones you listen too and not the inexperience kids who only listen to their instructors, again more kids with what experience.
Enough raving. I had a hard ride today through high high wind, driving sheet rain and mud. 2 hours of trying to get blown off a horse, soaking wet and deep mud. I got to have a drink

 

[PechosGoldenChance]

I don't know man...I'm still with riosdad. I know that I'm done pussy footing around with being gentle and ****. Especially when our horses are supposed to be theraputic riding horses. Now, mind you, they're do exeptional with the kids but exeptional is becoming not nearly enough for me. I want my horses to be bullet-proof, respectful to everyone, and on and on... I may still be working with my horse, but I can say that I ride bridleless also, if I can do it now ALREADY, I can just imagine what she will be like when we have completely reached our goal of respect and the bond.

 

[RiosDad]

I just had a quick look through the list of posters and there are some knowledgable people with good ideas.
I want to name a few Scoutrider, Kitten val, MacabreMikalaj , nrhareiner, Honeysuga, iride horses, Kevin or course, marecare and one KID who really impresses me Wild spot, great head on her shoulder.
smrob without a double and great lady. These are just a few and I missed alot of others but these people are the ones you should be listening too. Again I missed a number but these have some great advice.

I am really in hot water for this post but agian I am tired and wore out with the wind and rain and mud
Sorry

 

[PechosGoldenChance]

Rio: view my post on 'dances' tell me what you think when you get the chance, and have had some drinks I think I'll be having a few too. lol

 

[RiosDad]

Rio: view my post on 'dances' tell me what you think when you get the chance, and have had some drinks I think I'll be having a few too. lol

Truth be told I don't really drink. I just had a glass of chocolate milk. I don't like beer, I don't like wine and hard stuff I can't stand.
Milk is my drink of choice.
I will check it out

 

[ridesapaintedpony]

I don't like beer

Can't they kick you out of Canada for admitting that?

I agree with Riosdad. There is a place for "natural horsemanship" but they are big animals that can hurt you. Sometimes you need to hurt them back before that happens. I'm not talking mean and cruel. I'm talking getting after them for unwanted behavior. Nip it in the bud, so to speak, before it gets to the point where someone is going to get hurt.