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Discussion Starter #1
:evil: May be long.. repetive... etc.. just wanna get it all out. Bare with me :) Reply how ever you want, negitive or positive. If you mis understood something ill be happy to clearify :) Just lots of thoughts going at once. Read it all before replying lol.

Today I had one of the worst rides on Chance in a LONG time! Before today she was w/t/c and jumping with perfect transitions and slowing down right when I asked..... but I gave her a week or more off but was still doing ground work and getting her energy out, so theres no way she was just hyper. When I started riding her again I just did parelli patterns. Today when I wanted to do some real work, she decided to just take off full out bucking. This didnt scare me or anything just ask kept her going afterwards. I know its not the saddle, because I rode her in it the day before and she was fine.

I think its because I was finally telling her how it was gonna be done, before I was doing the parelli patterns on a long loose rein and letting her figure it out and just having fun, not really working her and she just took advantage of it all today. Bolting, bucking, pulling, trying to drag me over jumps, not stopping... everything and I kept calm and would ask her to stop or let out some rein and let her do what she wanted [as in the pace of each gait] and she would be fine, nice low head. If it was the saddle she would show pain either way. Correct?? I checked her back and she never flinched.

I dont want to blame it on parelli so much because I love the ground work and always have fun with that, but everytime I try and go back to parelli undersaddle my horse goes back like 10 steps! Its RIDICULOUS! I only went back to it this time because about 6 people kept saying how I was riding her "the normal way" It was horrible and wrong, and I let it get to me, well IDC anymore I want the horse I! trained back! Not this dominate little B****. :oops:

I dont need a certin type of program to keep my horse happy. Theres NO way im gonna sit here and listen to people who do parelli say its my fault, because I did nothing different but take a little more leadership of the situation. Shes a lot of horse in a small package and I cant let her get away with what she did today, parelli or not.

NOTE: for those who are wanting to try Parelli, DO IT! Its the best form of ground work IMO, just be careful if you have young/dominate horses when it comes to the riding. But it has taught me a lot about reading horses and working WITH the horse not against, and thats what im gonna take away from it w/ all the horses I work with. Ground work part is staying with me.

I have a video to "prove" that she can w/t/c and jump calmly when ridden the "normal way" and you can clearly see theres no "forcing". -.- To parelli it seems like if its not exactly their way its wrong and forcing the horse. Sure theres some ear pinning in the video because it was at least an hour into teh ride and I wanted to get video so I pushed her a bit more and she was done in her head so she got a little fussy. But never once refused to do what I asked.

*sigh*
 

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I'm not for or against Parelli either way, so I can't advise you there.

Maybe she just had a really bad day...I know one day I was working Blue, and he lays down easily, but not that day...he kept going partially down, and then popping back up...he did eventually go down, and the next day didn't give any problems...maybe just give her the benefit of the doubt today, given that she was so good yesterday.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well she wasnt all that great yesterday either, she was taking off then too. I just thought it was a bad day then, but when she was doing it worse today I knew she was just being dominate and the patterns just werent doing it for her.

That last good ride we had was the first ride after her week off, and thats it. The rest shes just been slowly getting worse. Maybe its just a bad week.

I love parelli, just not the riding part, it would be nice with a calm older horse but with a young hotter breed its just not going right and I've done all the ground work plus more, she just seems to need a firmer leader undersaddle.
 

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Funny things happen when it's a little cold outside and horses are feeling good and have some time off. Sometimes they think they're on vacation. Suddenly we ask them for something they don't agree with such as walking past the scary tree stump or trotting on the bit. Instead of complying, the result is a bucking, rearing hissy fit. My normally sweet boy has been a monster this winter.

I'm sure I'll take some crap for this, but I don't always see the connection between ground work and riding. Just the other day I had the aforementioned tree stump problem. Every time I tried to take my horse out to a field behind the property, he would get to the same place, freeze, spin around and try to run away. I spent half an hour one rein stopping and trying to get him past the tree stump using every tool in my kit. Once my toes froze, I knew I was running out of time to address the situation. I got off, walked him past it a few dozen times with no reaction whatsoever from him. I got back on and we were right back to square one. I'm not a nervous or reactive rider, and I did all I could to stay calm and not get angry with him. None of it worked. Hopefully the next time will be different. Chalk it up to a bad day and go to your next ride with a completely erased memory. That's my plan anyway!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Maybe its all the snow. Ill try again next time and see what happens. I might go back and forth from loose rein to contact, and see how she does. Its not like she hasnt been ridden with contact before.

See if Chance was to spook at something like that, I dont lead her to it, I send her to it or by it and let her figure it out. If I lead her she is only okay cause shes following me and im confident, if im not there to go near it she has to get confident in herself. Do you understand what I mean??

Thanks for replying :) I had a ton of thoughts going at once so I decided to post them here lol
 

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Ha! I never thought of that, sending him past it. Great idea. See how great these forums are. When we're stuck thinking X, there's always somebody around to suggest Y. I'll try it next time we get stuck at the horse eating stump. Good luck on your next ride.
 

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Most of the time when our horses are not doing what they should be doing it is not the fault of the horse or the training program or the saddle. It's the rider. You seem like you really know what your doing so I can't tell you what to do but look at yourself first. Many times when the horse doesn't get enough of an idea from the rider it will come up with an idea of his own and most of the time it's not what the rider wants.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Quite literally, I was trotting her along side teh wall and squeezed with my legs just a bit asking for a bit more spring in her trot and ZOOM we were off bucking. So .. idk. She also took off once, when I was just turning her around the corner at the walk and she just took off. To me I didnt feel like I was doing anything, at least nothing different then I normally do besides asked her for a bit more forward movement... she just went more forward then I wanted LOL!!

MyBoyPuck- Thanks! And Good luck with that scary stump! Haha Careful might be a horse eatting monster on it :p
 

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The problem with the cold weather, is that it gives the rider limited time to address some situations. My horse did a similar thing with a wood pile last year. Wouldn't go past it, no matter what. Unlike my last ride where it was 20 degrees out and my extremities started to freeze, it was a beautiful spring day. After exhausting every tool in my kit, I literally sat there for 40 minutes and took in the scenery while my horse tried trick after trick for getting away from the wood pile. After the 40 minutes, I guess he realized I was thicker in the head than him. He let out a big sigh, walked calmly past the wood pile and never did it again. Goofball. I'm sure I could have managed the tree stump thing better if I could have felt all parts of my body, but time was just against me. It's supposed to be a balmy 40 degrees next time I ride, so I'll be able to be as stubborn as him.
 

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First of all it has nothing to do with the weather, saddle, being in heat, or any other excuse people can come up with. Second, it's not a problem with Parelli program either.

It sounds like you need to challenge your horse a little bit(the one thing Parelli doesn't stress enough). You mentioned going back and letting her be(loose rein) and she went back to calm. That's fine for you to let her know how laid back things can be, but you have to show her how tough they can be also. That way she really craves being respectful and disciplined and you can accomplish something.

So do this, when your horse wants to buck, bolt, or whatever else you have got to let her know that things are going to become very bad for her when she does that. The way you do that is by really putting her to work very hard and when she decides to start acting right(while your still "challenging" her) then give her a good rest and leave her alone for a little bit. What this does is show her a very distinct difference in the consequence you are giving her for her actions, desired and undesired.
 

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Nothing to do with the weather!! I see you're in Alabama. Get any 20 degree days down there for extended periods of time? No offense, but feel free to come up and ride my horse in August when it's 90 degrees out and then again in January when it's 20. Then you can attest that weather is not a factor. Horses up north are feeling really up this year. As frustrating as it can be, if the OP can deal with her horse effectively in the cold, she will be a much better rider for the effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
its in the 20's and under here, and a crap load of snow and its gonna get below 0 at some point this winter, like always!! lol Weather DEFF does effect horses. Just like it effects us. And thank you MyBoyPuck, im hoping to come out of this bad streak even stronger then before.

Like I said, I dont want to blame the program so much, because Ive done the program for a year and only been getting good results till it comes to saddle work. When I leave that part out and almost do what you said, show her that things can get so much worse we DO seem to get some where. I might go that direction next if this happens again. I understand what your saying :D
 

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I can promise you that no matter what the weather is, or whatever distraction you can think of, you can have you horse tuned into you for every ride on every day if they truly understand that you will hold them accountable for every action. And it is really as simple as making the things you want them to do easy on them physically and the things you don't want them to do very hard on the physically.

Horses are very simple and there are Lazy most of all. That is why making them work is thing that gets across to them the best. It's as simple as leave them alone when they are doing right and make them work when they are not.

You can't allow the distractions(weather, being in heat, other horses, objects, etc.) to steer you thought as far as what you think you can accomplish. That was my point about the weather.

By-the-way MYBOYPUCK I would be willing to ride in whatever condition to get the point across that if you go out thinking about those distractions you have already beat yourself.
 

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Actually Parelli DOES stress with challenging left brained horses like Chance. They get bored easily and if they aren't engaged they can come up with games of their own.

When my horse bucked with me (the only time he's ever done it) is when I got a little more firm when asking him to go faster and he bucked so I sent him forward FASTER until he wasn't thinking about it anymore. When he relaxed I relaxed. After that, he was VERY forward, more attentive, more light and sensitive, but not out of fear. And he's been that way ever since :)
 

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Actually Parelli DOES stress with challenging left brained horses like Chance. They get bored easily and if they aren't engaged they can come up with games of their own.

When my horse bucked with me (the only time he's ever done it) is when I got a little more firm when asking him to go faster and he bucked so I sent him forward FASTER until he wasn't thinking about it anymore. When he relaxed I relaxed. After that, he was VERY forward, more attentive, more light and sensitive, but not out of fear. And he's been that way ever since :)
Exactly, just the result you should have from that. And I'm glad he does stress it deeper into his program. It is one of the things that has to happenfor a horse to learn how to take things.

The oppsite reaction(stopping) to a horse that bucks(or anything else undesired) would tell the horse that they did the right thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I couldnt do anything with her but run her into a wall, she braced her neck so hard that even with two hands I could barely turn her head to slow her down. And I couldnt make her go any faster LOL Well I could have it just wouldn't be safe with the others in there. I mean I understand what your saying I agree with it! But I dont know what to do, when what she does is brace her neck and bucks mutiple times and charges LOL! A few times I got her to trot fast and hard in a tight circle then when she lowered her head I let her stop. But that was ONCE lol I never once let her stopp after she bucked, once I get myself balenced again I would send her right back off in a trot and get her moving.

Its been such a long time since shes done this stuff. I hate that shes doing it again. BLEH! lol Oh well it will be fun to get the through it.

I mean weather shouldn't be an excuse to not work with them and what not but it is a reason why some will act up. Which I dont think this is why Chance is doing it, I think shes just taking it to a whole new level of testing me.
 

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Man it sounds like a tough time you're having. But believe me I have been there.

Um the only other thing I can gather is if she is able to brace her neck and not let you bring her around then she doesn't have a true respect for giving to you for lateral flexion. She may give to you standing still but this is a spot where I;m talking about challenging your horse. Meaning she needs to be willing to give to your hands at any gate and in any situation.

Also keep your confidence in your program, that is very important.
 

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First of all it has nothing to do with the weather, saddle, being in heat, or any other excuse people can come up with.
Have you ever been in "heat"? Lol, its horrible.
Saddle fit most certainly can cause behavior change... its seen it first hand on my mare.
Horses are more frisky in winter, they are warmblooded...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Chance will give lateral flexion with barely a lift of the rein when I asked. She will even do it with out me asking and be like "hey is this good?!" She use to do it at all 3 gaits, and still will if shes not determined to keep going.

Shes gone backwards, and hard LOL Which Im not to worried about it, Ive been through worse with her, Im just kinda stuck cause shes gotten WAY smarter lol! She was still trying to canter and be good but at the same time when I tried saying hey pick up that trot she would be like okay ill go faster!! lol Shes only been trained by me [on ground and in saddle] since she was 4 [she turned 6 in september] so I know what she knows, but shes out smarting me STILL. lol She hasnt pulled this stuff on me since the first year with her so its kinda scary when she reverts back so quickly.

Heres the video of me riding her 2 months ago:


So any more suggestions will be nice, Id like my Chancey back LOL!
 

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Ok, few things I noticed. 1) she was kinda ****y when going into the canter. I didn't see anything you were doing wrong, but maybe you were still being too 'loud' for her.....sometimes I shift in the seat is all that's needed...so how long had you been riding her at this point? 2) when you turn you have a tendency to lower your hand below your leg....sit up, eyes, belly button, leg, rein...and lift the rein to turn. That will help keep her weight back and keep you more secure. 3) stop with the circles already! lol. Yes circles are good but you know how Chance gets bored.

With your transitions- halt/back up, halt/walk/halt, walk/trot/walk, trot/canter/trot, etc. AND transitions within the same gait (how fast and slow can you walk? etc.) DO THEM MORE OFTEN. This will engage her mind.....walk five steps then stop and back up. Trot five steps then walk. Canter five steps then trot....and an advanced transition is canter/walk or canter/halt (those are fun!).

For lateral flexion, I was thinking the exact same thing PaytonSidesHorsemanship was.....go back and do lateral flexion, both sides, at the halt.....then walk and bend to a stop (both sides), and do the same at trot and canter. Then see if you can do little half-bends toward the rail to slow her down.

Another thing I think you should do with her is the half-disengagement relaxation exercise that was in the Savvy Times a couple issues back. That works WONDERS with bracy horses!
 
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