[missy567]

Okay so a friend of mine, sent her pony to a trainer. A very reputable one at that. Well he only had the pony for two weeks, when I seen the pony, he had been standing in the barn for 4+ hours while the trainer was not home, with a saddle on his back! He had no one monitering him. When he came up to us, i noticed he had bloody sores on the sides of his mouth where some one had laid into his mouth with a harsh bit... The pony is only 3 and was totally spoiled rotten he had never wore a saddle a day in his life, the day the trainer comes to get him, he gets on him that same day... never earns the trust or creates a bond with him or any thing....

Is this normal for a trainer???:shock:

 

[Kashmere]

I would personally say it is not.

Why don't u go ahead and ask them about it?
Like, what happened with the mouth and why they go so fast with the saddle?

Perhaps the trainer had a proper reason for it
However I would definitely get onto the case and try to find out

 

[MacabreMikolaj]

I would be very cautious before making assumptions. You said yourself that this pony is spoiled rotton - a bit does NOT have to be harsh to make marks on the side of the mouth. Just this weekend, our pony Justus ended up with a bloody mouth when she decided to blow a gasket over some wagons and the bit got banged against her tooth in trying to control her. I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up with some mild sores on the corners of her mouth after the fireworks she pulled and how hard Shay-la had to fight to control her. We got a leadrope on her and ponied her as quick as possible, but she did it all herself.

It is more then common for him to climb aboard the first day - he is NOT here to bond with this horse, he is here to ensure your friend gets her money's worth in whatever time he is allotted. I would actually be quite happy at someone who gets to work so promptly. As for letting him pack a saddle, for all you know this pony decided he didn't feel like learning and took your trainer for one heckuva good ride and now he's standing in a stall to sulk it out and consider his options.

Appearances can be decieving and if this pony went to the trainer spoiled, you can guarantee he's not coming back without a few marks - and probably all of his own accord. If I saw open bloody spur gashes on his side, I'd be ticked, but what you've described sounds pretty consistant with a snotty pony thinking he can get his way and learning the hard way he can't - which is exactly what's being paid for.

By all means, ask the trainer about it, but I wouldn't be getting upset about it at this point.

 

[Fowl Play]

It might be in everyone's best interest to let the owner of the pony do the questioning. Things could get pretty ugly if a friend were to start asking a lot of questions. Just saying.

 

[kevinshorses]

Okay so a friend of mine, sent her pony to a trainer. A very reputable one at that. Well he only had the pony for two weeks, when I seen the pony, he had been standing in the barn for 4+ hours while the trainer was not home, with a saddle on his back! He had no one monitering him. When he came up to us, i noticed he had bloody sores on the sides of his mouth where some one had laid into his mouth with a harsh bit... The pony is only 3 and was totally spoiled rotten he had never wore a saddle a day in his life, the day the trainer comes to get him, he gets on him that same day... never earns the trust or creates a bond with him or any thing....

Is this normal for a trainer???:shock:

Is it normal? Only for the good ones. Sometimes young horses have to be pulled on with the bit. The corners of the mouth are soft and sensitive and if they haven't built any thicker skin then they will sometimes get a little red. I don't worry about that because when they get sore I have to pull less and then they heal up and you have a nice soft horse. There is no such thing as a harsh bit. I have sored a horses mouth with a snaffle before. I once had a horse cut her tongue almost all the way off lbecause she stepped on a rein in a snaffle. How do you think horses get over being spoiled? How do you think a horse learns to stand quietly while saddled? It's not from being hand grazed and petted. It's from work and training and sometimes being left to figure things out for themselves. If your friend has the same attitude that I gather you have from your post the pony will be back to it's spoiled self in no time regardless of what the mean old trainer makes it do.

 

[Flex Horse]

I have to agree with Kevinshorses 100% (actually I usually agree with most of his posts, very similar outlook to us!). And like Fowl Play said, it really would be best to let the owner of the pony raise any questions or concerns directly with the trainer. It's always best to be upfront and have good open lines of communication between trainers and owners!

 

[sandy2u1]

I only wanted to comment on the part about the horse being left tied up. I had to send my horse to a trainer because of some severe issues we were having together. My trainer did some things I was unsure about...like using a chain over his nose during lunging and riding him first thing in the morning and leaving him tied all day (although I didn't say anything, just worried)...but I must say, the proof is in the pudding so to speak. Every time I went out, my horse and I got better and better together. As time would tell, she is a very kind and gentle trainer, she just doesn't put up with crap. She taught my horse that there is a good and acceptable way to act that is easiest and doesn't cause pain, but if he chooses the other way, there will be consequences.

 

[draftrider]

I don't have a problem with a horse wearing a saddle for four hours. If I was saddling for the first time I'd leave the saddle on for enough time that the horse got used to it and quit humping up or getting worried about it. If it takes 4 hours, so it takes 4 hours. If it takes 4 days, then the horse will wear the saddle all day long.

I was criticized just yesterday for tying my gelding to my horse trailer for a few hours. He decided to dance around while grooming when I had him snapped onto the trailer loop, so guess what? He stood there while I finished grooming, and as long as he felt like dancing around. When he finally relaxed about 3 hours later, he got untied. I was told by someone it was abusive to tie a horse for hours because "he would be bored".

 

[White Foot]

Just because the OP sounds young doesn't mean she can't put two and two together. When I was younger and Gunther went into training I knew something was wrong in my gut, but I didn't say anything. And now I wish I did! Now that I know what I'm looking at it actually ****es me off. And that was from a "reputable trainer".

Putting a horse in the saddle in his/her stall is fine, I did it with Gunther and it worked out well. However, no responsible trainer would get up and leave the horse for 4+ hours. Too many reasons to count. What the horse tied or just let lose in his stall? I know two owners who decided it was a great idea to tie their horse in the stall and leave. Guess what?! The horse died. The vet suspected it was because the horse was spooked by something and his head was tied up so he had a some what "heat attack". I'm not against putting a horse in the stall and tying him for manners, eta.. but I would never, ever leave the horse tied and walk away.

What type of "harsh bit" was he using? A small cut is nothing, but if the horse has sores on both sides of his mouth I would probably be ****ed. I don't know one horse, and I'll ask my boss today, that has gotten sores on both sides of his mouth from a simple training bit. Even if it was the first time riding the horse. It's not normal. To me I would be saying "hmm either this bit is too small/tight and is rubbing, or this guy is harshly pulling back with both reins, eta.."

No the trainer isn't there to be buddy buddy, but he still has to have some respect and trust from the horse.

 

[kevinshorses]

I'm not a very responsible trainer then. I have left horses tied up for hours for various reasons and I expect them to get over whatever is scaring them if it doesn't kill them immediately. I have never had a problem with it. As I said before alot of horses have very tender skin on the corners of thier mouths and it doesn't take much to get it sore. I will pull as much as the horse forces me to but not one bit more. Sometimes I barely have to take slack from the rein and sometimes I have to pull quite hard.

 

[maura]

Sounds pretty normal to me. I like a horse to stand in tack for awhile as part of the breaking process. Usually I take the stirrups off so they can't get hung on anything; and I used to keep an old ratty saddle that I didn't care about for exactly this purpose. 4 hours doesn't sound excessive. Nothing's hurting the pony here, he's just learning patience and tolerance.

I also usually let a greenie stand in bitting rig - loose ring or rubber snaffle, surcingle and side reins for 1 - 2 hours at a time. I adjust the side reins so that the horse has to learn to give to release the pressure. It's ideal, IMO, just to leave the horse alone in his stall to work this out for himself. When I see the horse standing quietly, not fighting and giving to the pressure; then I'll do a little long rein work and establish steering and brakes. He may very well fight the rig at first and hurt his mouth, but I want him to associate that pain with his fighting, not with me or anything I'm doing.

I also don't have a problem backing a horse the first day.

As far as earning trust or creating a bond, a good trainer does that *by* working with the horse in this manner, and being a leader. A lot of the NH games and exercises that "earn trust" or "create a bond" are long, slow routes to this goal for handlers that aren't comfortable in the role of alpha or leader. A calm, confident, authoritative trainer doesn't need these exercises because he/she is secure in that role and can communicate that to the horse readily. You may be confusing the means with the end.

 

[justsambam08]

I'm not a very responsible trainer then. I have left horses tied up for hours for various reasons and I expect them to get over whatever is scaring them if it doesn't kill them immediately. I have never had a problem with it. As I said before alot of horses have very tender skin on the corners of thier mouths and it doesn't take much to get it sore. I will pull as much as the horse forces me to but not one bit more. Sometimes I barely have to take slack from the rein and sometimes I have to pull quite hard.

Were you still around when you left them tied? Like you went into the house, maybe sat down and ate dinner? You could at least be in hearing distance if a horse started to really have a mental breakdown or get himself in trouble.

To the OP, what did this guy do? Go to dinner and a movie? Thats irresponsible. However, if he was always kind of around, but not RIGHT there, then thats teaching patience.

Also, I would be concerned, regardless of whether the practice is "normal" or not, of whether or not this horse had access to water. That would also be a deciding factor of irresponsible vs just questionable practices.

 

[draftrider]

A horse is not going to suffer from not having access to water for 4 hours. Heck, when my bunch is out in the way back pasture in summer, they come up twice a day for water and thats it. No animal is dehydrated in 4 hours except maybe a frog.

 

[justsambam08]

A horse is not going to suffer from not having access to water for 4 hours. Heck, when my bunch is out in the way back pasture in summer, they come up twice a day for water and thats it. No animal is dehydrated in 4 hours except maybe a frog.

I guess it depends on where you live? In Florida all the horses we have go maybe an hour without water, its just too hot and too humid.

Especially if the horse is stressed out, pacing or dancing etc, I could imagine needing water sooner.

 

[mls]

J

Putting a horse in the saddle in his/her stall is fine, I did it with Gunther and it worked out well. However, no responsible trainer would get up and leave the horse for 4+ hours. Too many reasons to count. What the horse tied or just let lose in his stall? I know two owners who decided it was a great idea to tie their horse in the stall and leave. Guess what?! The horse died. The vet suspected it was because the horse was spooked by something and his head was tied up so he had a some what "heat attack". I'm not against putting a horse in the stall and tying him for manners, eta.. but I would never, ever leave the horse tied and walk away.

We have tie stalls the horses can be in over night. Have not had a heart attack yet.

Horses stand tied to the trailer for hours at horse shows, some horses are not allowed to lay down after surgery at the clinic and are tied for hours . . .

 

[Chavez]

My first gelding went to the trainers and on many occasions i showed up and found excatly waht you talk about. Him tied around in the stall tacked up. Well i tell you what when i sold him that boy would stand for hours (on trail, trailer, barn you name it he would stand). I since than have never had a horse that stood so long and did not have a care in the world. So guess what i am working with my new gelding doing the same thing now and he is coming along great.

 

[kitten_Val]

I have left horses tied up for hours for various reasons and I expect them to get over whatever is scaring them if it doesn't kill them immediately. I have never had a problem with it.

I did it once last year (I was around BTW so that's the only reason she was not dead). The vet cost me too much that time to do it again (plus over month off for the horse).

 

[kevinshorses]

You have to tie them up safely and properly or they may injure themselves. I sometimes leave a horse tied while I go to town for some reason or I might just be in the house eating dinner but I can't see the barn from the table and I have three little boys so I couldn't hear the horse if it spontaneously exploded. I tie them securely and safely and let them worry about the rest.

 

[kitten_Val]

You have to tie them up safely and properly or they may injure themselves. I sometimes leave a horse tied while I go to town for some reason or I might just be in the house eating dinner but I can't see the barn from the table and I have three little boys so I couldn't hear the horse if it spontaneously exploded. I tie them securely and safely and let them worry about the rest.

Then what would you consider as completely safe? I'm not arguing here BTW, I'm indeed curious.

 

[nrhareiner]

I think to many people spoil their horses and put human emotions on to them. Heck I have weanlings that will stand tied for hours. Be it it was not the first time tied and they are worked up to that but they MUST learn. Go to a show where there are no stalls. Your horse must tie. Some times all day. I have little problem with this. If my classes are close enough together or if I am showing more then one horse they will stand tied with a saddle at times most of the day.