[thedreamer2609]

i have a horse who has at some stage in the past been nerve blocked in his front leg, and therefore has limited blood flow. for this reason and due to slight displacement within his back, he is barefoot. however now jumping 1.40m and we noticed yesterday he completely lost his footing on take off...have heard about something called barefoot studs...any advice what these are like for jumping(he bounces around alot so would have to be very secure) and where they are available from(im in Hamilton New Zealand)
Thanks!

 

[loosie]

Why has he got reduced blood flow from a nerve block?? Have you considered a vet chiropractor to try to treat that, and his back problem? 'Normally' shod with rims, I agree with your concern about circulation(& other stuff). But IMO, *well shod*, with particular consideration to hoof function(ie not peripherally loading walls, support underneath, pref flexible shoes...), they shouldn't really have any further reduction of circulation than they may have now. You might find the new Easyshoes to your liking, & you can also put studs in the N/G ones.

Yes, barefoot & booted horses can have less traction in slippery situations & jumping(tho could it possibly be his back prob that caused the slip?). I don't have any personal experience with barefoot studs, but I believe they're only suitable for soft footing - they need to be removed for hard ground.

 

[BugZapper89]

So you are jumping a horse with a never block, which means the horse doesn't really know where the ground is or how it feels, and you wonder why the horse lost his footing. You don't even know why the horse is blocked! YIPES what trainer thought this was a good idea , they need to be black listed.

 

[NBEventer]

Umm... jumping a nerve blocked horse with back issues 1.40? Please tell me what part of this says good idea? I feel sorry for that poor horse. I wouldnt be looking for traction for him. Id be looking for a retirement pasture.

 

[squirrelfood]

Nerve blocking does not restrict blood flow, it restricts all feeling in the hoof, which is a recipe for disaster if you continue jumping this horse. Horse can't feel where he puts his foot and you wonder why he slips? It's a wonder he hasn't gone down and killed you. Find him a walk/trot home.

 

[NBEventer]

I have never once heard a vet say it is okay to jump a nerve blocked horse. Any time the topic of nerve blocking has been brought up in any horse ive known the first thing the vet says is the horse will never be safe to jump even a single cross rail and will only be safe for arena work and make sure you are checking the feet and legs daily for injury as the horse will never be able to tell you.

 

[SueNH]

I'm with the others he needs to find a home poking along trails or giving little kids lessons in a ring with even footing.

If the nerve has been blocked it means it's been severed. No growing back. It also means for some reason he has suffered from chronic pain. Vets don't go around severing nerves for nothing reasons. He isn't safe for jumping. He isn't safe for mountain trails. Nerve blocking is a last ditch effort to make a horse in pain sound. It means other avenues have been exhausted.

Even little pokey me who mostly walks a trail sight seeing won't use a nerved horse. I may have soft sand, I may have sharp gravel, I may have bedrock or ice I need to cross. In order to do that safely my mare needs to feel that ground and know if she needs to tip toe a bit or just stomp down.

The bars on a barefoot hoof act as brakes. Are the bars flattened over?
Hooves need do some slipping and slidding, some. It relieves some torque on the rest of the leg.

There are hoof boots with places to put studs just like you see with metal shoes. There is also a shoe that are just tips. They cover the toe and toe callous only leaving the rest of the hoof bare.

 

[NorthernMama]

So, the nerve blocking and the back issue are the reason for being barefoot, but not valid reasons to STOP jumping with this horse? I don't get it. I don't see how shoes could affect either blood flow or back, but jumping is dangerous and detrimental to this horse.

 

[beau159]

it restricts all feeling in the hoof

We do not have all the information from the OP so I do not believe this is a valid thing to say.

It sounds like the OP is confused about the horse's history and thus may or may not be able to tell us EXACTLY what portion of which front leg was de-nerved. If only the very back portion of the heel was de-nerved (which is most commonly done) the horse does NOT lose all feeling in the foot. Only the very lower/back portion of the heel. Many horses are actually safer once they have been de-nerved because they will correctly land flat-footed or heel first, rather than landing toe-first and tripping/falling.



And on a side note: Nerve block refers to a diagnostic test where the nerve is temporarily numbed.

De-nerving (neurectomy) is where the nerve is actually severed.

Let's use the correct terminology .... assuming the OP's horse actually had a neurectomy.

If the nerve has been blocked it means it's been severed. No growing back.

Incorrect.

Nerves CAN regenerate. It is actually quite common that they do.

i have a horse who has at some stage in the past been nerve blocked in his front leg, and therefore has limited blood flow. for this reason and due to slight displacement within his back, he is barefoot. however now jumping 1.40m and we noticed yesterday he completely lost his footing on take off...have heard about something called barefoot studs...any advice what these are like for jumping(he bounces around alot so would have to be very secure) and where they are available from(im in Hamilton New Zealand)
Thanks!

Can you give us more information?

Which leg was de-nerved and do you know what specific area? Do you know WHY the horse was de-nerved?

What specific back problem does he have?

What do you mean by "he bounces around a lot"?

When was the last time he was evaluated by a lameness expert?

 

[jaydee]

Nerve blocking isn't the same as de-nerving. Nerve blocking is (in my understanding) a temporary thing done by a vet when trying to determine the source of lameness
De-nerving is mostly seen in horses with navicular disease - and its not always permanent
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something?

 

[Yogiwick]

Have to say. Before reading any comments my only thought was "WHY are you jumping a horse 1.4m with a nerve block and back issues??????" Jumping period, let alone that high.

What does the vet say?

FWIW I've never heard of barefoot studs. I've heard of "notching" the feet to provide better traction. Can't find pics, but I read something where a lady did this for eventing. Not a traditional thing and can obviously be very bad if things don't go perfect and the horse doesn't have perfect feet.

I would NOT recommend this. This horse has limited feeling, if he has more traction then he think he has he could easily step the wrong way and hurt himself badly.

Not sure if I'd recommend this at ALL for a nerved horse.

You have way bigger issues than "barefoot studs" and I'm glad neither of you have been hurt yet!!

 

[loosie]

Glad I'm not the only one to think the jumping was an extremely bad idea for the poor horse, but I didn't say anything about that bit, because I never considered anyone would be doing this with a CURRENT nerve block - I was imagining the horse was blocked in the past for something & it went wrong & damaged blood vessels or such.

 

[Yogiwick]

Jumping 1.4m note..I also am hopefully assuming it's not a current nerve block, but that doesn't change the fact there are issues. Regardless of the technicalities (even a previous nerve block gone wrong) the OP said he currently has feet and back issues. It's the symptoms that matter here not the cause. I've seen a couple threads that make me go "???!?!!!!!" this is one. Hopefully the OP can provide some more information since I'm sure we are all very curious what is going on here.

 

[thedreamer2609]

He is cleared to jump, and in better condition now than 2 years ago when we tried to retire him(thinking the problem was unfixable) - he became deperessed and refused to eat.( and YOURE saying im cruel to keep him doing what he ENJOYS?) thanks for your concern though. the nerve block was not fully effective, so maybe it was a de-nerving? the vet called it a nerve block; 2 years ago he was near dead in the lower limb, though now he has about 45% circulation when cold, and 85% when warmed in preparation for exercise.Therefore he has LIMITED circulation in that leg from the knee down which is warmed before riding to ensure he has sufficient circulation to feel his stride. now does anyone have any decent advice or are you all just concerned that my 'poor horse' is being treated so very badly by allowing him to continue doing what he loves??? here is a photo showing him last weekend - he looks oh so unhappy that he is 'forced to jump in such pain' which does not even exist.

 

[thedreamer2609]

and just to mention - funny you say he needs a walk trot home. or a 'kid' because that would be totally safe, give him to someone who has NO IDEA what they are dealing with. and he isnt your plod along horse, hes a performance horse, whos hot headed and loves to jump. so no, none of the above are suitable. he enjoys what he is doing with me, the jumping. go learn every detail about the horse before you start stuff like that. hes my pride and joy, and i take every care in ensuring he is at peak health - better than most others would - before even putting a saddle on his back.

 

[NBEventer]

Of course he "looks happy" he can't feel anything. If he doesn't like retirement make him a dressage horse. He should not be jumping. Any vet worth their degree wouldn't clear a nerve blocked or de nerved horse with back issues for jumping 1.40.

Im just floored at this.

If your vet is so amazing ask him how to give your horse better traction.

Btw facebook links are not allowed

 

[VickiRose]

OP please don't get defensive, there are some very knowlegable people here and you did ask for help.

We can only base advice on the info you provide, so perhaps give more info to get better answers.

So far you have said he has had a nerve block or a permanent nerve removal procedure. You have been unclear on the details. He also has reduced circulation in the same leg? As generally a nerve block has no effect on circulation, this is maybe a different issue? And in addition he has a previous back injury? He likes to jump, and that is his current job.

He has lost his footing during jumping and you are wondering about options to increase his traction?

Surely based on the information given, you can understand everyone's concerns? Based solely on what you have told us, we get a picture of a sore backed horse with poor circulation and a numb lower leg/hoof being asked to perform a task requiring peak fitness and dexterity. Based on this we aren't surprised he can't keep his footing, and doubt that any sort of shoe or stud system is going to help the root cause.

We might completely have the wrong end of the stick, but please expand on what you have told us so we can see where we were mistaken?

 

[Dawn854]

Hey OP, I'm from Hamilton too! Small world aye?

I haven't heard of barefoot studs, but I have heard of a trimming method where you can trim small "grooves" in the horse's hooves to help them grip the ground better. I chatted to someone at HOY a couple of years ago that had a horse competing barefoot that way.

I do not trim and am far from an expert on hooves. So if anyone here has any opinion on this and can further expand on the idea, please do!

*edit: what Yogiwick said sounds like what I was thinking of.

 

[squirrelfood]

Have to agree with Vickirose. Something just doesn't smell right here.

 

[Yogiwick]

First you say he can't feel anything and his feet are slipping and he can't wear shoes...cause he can't feel anything.

Now you're saying he has sufficient circulation to feel his stride.

Agree, no one said he's in pain as he can't feel anything!

Also don't recall anyone saying to sell him as a kids horse. Just stop jumping him that high.

So regardless of jumping a horse with very limited feeling in a leg and back issues 1.4m (does that really sound right to you?) what about the SAFETY factor??? That jumps out even more. Unfortunately sounds like you may need to learn the hard way when you and or the poor horse get seriously hurt.. Get a second vet opinion. Something's not right here. The fact that that sounds ok or the fact that a vet cleared it..

As we all know horses don't really know what's good for them. I'm sure you could find a compromise....