[Horse Dreamer]

My kids 3&8 and myself are beginning to get into horses. We're taking lessons on horsemanship (grooming, caring, ect) right now. Jumped in way to soon and bought the wrong her for us (lesson learned). My kids are big for the ages and I'd like to get a small horse/large pony for all of us to learn on (13-14hh) What are your suggestions?

 

[Mercedes]

I think breed has less to do with, then quality of past training, experience and overall temperament. Having said that, there are breeds that tend to be more agreeable in general.

Quarter Horses are a nice choice. Some smaller draft crosses can be quite nice...sturdy and laidback. Appaloosas are usually suitable. Paints not so much...tend to be a bit too strong minded, but a Paint cross might work nicely. Standardbreds are idiot proof, but can be frustrating to retrain as suitable mounts...so if you go that way, you need to get one that doesn't have canter issues. There are lots of pony breed choices...that's a very one on one issue as a lot of ponies can be just brutal.

Again though, suggest that age, training and temperament be your first criteria.

 

[Horse Dreamer]

MY trainer said the same thing about the paints. I have really been thinking about a POA or welsh due to their smaller stature. My 3y/o is the size of an older 4y/o and my 8y/o is the size of a 12y/o so I want something stout but not to tall. Something that we can use for a while until we're ready to move up.

 

[Gidji]

I really wouldn't be too concerned about the breed just yet. I'd be more concerned about finding a horse with a good temperament. In my experience, you can normally find a nice quiet quarter horse and they tend to be great first horses. I also think warmbloods are lovely quiet horses, but I think they would be a bit too big for your children to handle at the moment. Just be aware, that there are exceptions to every breed and that you could find a nice quiet arab. Also, don't be put off if theres a quiet grade horse. Breed means nothing and you can find some amazing grade horses that do really well in competitions. Best of luck finding that perfect horse.

 

[Indyhorse]

Haflingers usually have easy, calm temperaments, (at least the ones around here do, but they are mostly amish bred) and are usually stout enough to carry an adult.

 

[Mercedes]

MY trainer said the same thing about the paints. I have really been thinking about a POA or welsh due to their smaller stature. My 3y/o is the size of an older 4y/o and my 8y/o is the size of a 12y/o so I want something stout but not to tall. Something that we can use for a while until we're ready to move up.

Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack.

I'm not as well versed in pony breeds, but I've always heard good things in general about the Welsh breed.

 

[Horse Dreamer]

I love the look of a haflinger.

 

[Mercedes]

Haflingers usually have easy, calm temperaments, (at least the ones around here do, but they are mostly amish bred) and are usually stout enough to carry an adult.

Yes! Tend to be a wonderful breed and definitely one to consider.

 

[Gidji]

Just remember too, that ponies can have a big attitude In my experience, most of the prissy little show ponies have a short man syndrome and always seem to think that they are the biggest, bossiest meanest horse around. But then again, you can find some perfectly behaved ponies too. Horses are just too complicated sometimes.

 

[Horse Dreamer]

Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack.

I'm not as well versed in pony breeds, but I've always heard good things in general about the Welsh breed.

Stubborness seems to be the BIG issue with my mare. She learned she could bully me and that was that. I'm doing better on the ground with taking charge, but I'm not confident enough in the saddle to try her out again. First and last ride on her she decided she was done and started acting up, so me not being confident she got her way and now she knows she can. I'm not willing to put the kids on her. They really want to ride. The lessons have kept them happy, but we've only road a few times so far. My trainer is all about care and horsemanship first. She says if you can't care for them properly you don't need to be on them. I agree.

 

[White Foot]

Well breeding does have to do with temperament, for instance, I wouldn't get a TB. I've seen calm ones but generally they are more of a demanding hyper breed. Same with Arabians.. I mean they're calm quiet ones but in general I'm talking about.


My vote is on a QH, in general, they are very easy keepers and usually have great temperaments.

 

[Mercedes]

Stubborness seems to be the BIG issue with my mare. She learned she could bully me and that was that. I'm doing better on the ground with taking charge, but I'm not confident enough in the saddle to try her out again. First and last ride on her she decided she was done and started acting up, so me not being confident she got her way and now she knows she can. I'm not willing to put the kids on her. They really want to ride. The lessons have kept them happy, but we've only road a few times so far. My trainer is all about care and horsemanship first. She says if you can't care for them properly you don't need to be on them. I agree.

I find that a lot of them are 'self-aware'. Meaning, they know how big and how strong they are, typically through having been spoiled early on because of their natural inherent tough-mindedness . Once they have that type of knowledge, it's a whole new ballgame.

If you can once get them agreeable with you, they are mentally tough mounts, which is a huge asset. It's getting there that is the mountain that needs to be climbed.

It sounds like you have a good plan for moving forward and an ideal mentor to help you get there. Don't give up on your girl, she'll be a wonderful teacher, but certainly it seems that a more suitable mount is in order for this stage of the game.

I have the utmost confidence that you'll get there and be riding your mare in the future and enjoying her. Best wishes and keep us updated!

 

[Horse Dreamer]

Thanks ya'll. I'm always encouraged after visiting with you!

 

[Mercedes]

Thanks ya'll. I'm always encouraged after visiting with you!

I just realized you're in Oklahoma. Some very good friends of mine are moving back there this spring. If you haven't found a suitable mount by then, drop me a PM and I'll put you in contact. They know EVERYBODY in OK and Texas in the horse world and could probably point you in the right direction.

 

[Horse Dreamer]

Thanks Mercedes! I will.

 

[Eastowest]

>>>> Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack.

IMO I would not recommend QHs without equally recommending Paints--- because overall, the two breeds share ALOT if not most of the same bloodlines as well as alot if not most major traits..... In my experience I think there are about the same % of quiet sweet beginner suitable Paints as there are quiet sweet beginner suitable QHs.

There are individuals and lines in BOTH breeds that might not be the easiest horses-- but I am saying overall IMO the two breeds overlap a whole lot and probably resemble each other in type, temperament and uses more than any other 2 breeds.

That said, I am not a Paint person or a QH person particulalry-- I agree that the individual is more important than the breed unless there are breed-specific things you want to do--

Of course as always, all else being good, I recommend Appaloosas the most. .

 

[Mercedes]

the two breeds share ALOT if not most of the same bloodlines as well as alot if not most major traits.....

No they don't. The QH has become specialized for several different disciplines. You will not find Paint blood in a QH bred for reining, cutting, ranch, racing, hus, dressage, halter or pleasure.

Anybody breeding QH's or Paints for the serious QH or Paint markets, don't cross the breeds. And any horse with one or the other breed more than three generations back no longer counts as a 'crossbred' because there isn't enough genetic material to worry about.

If we are to believe what you're saying, then the TB and the Arab, and a whole other list of breeds are essentially the same because they came from the same bloodlines...but clearly they are breeds unto themselves.

The horse in my avatar is by a roping bred Paint stallion...not one registered QH within the first 5 generations.

 

[Eastowest]

>>>> No they don't. The QH has become specialized for several different disciplines. You will not find Paint blood in a QH bred for reining, cutting, ranch, racing, hus, dressage, halter or pleasure.

You are right that you won't find too many registered Paints in most QH pedigrees, because up until recently, AQHA wouldn't register the excessive white offspring of QH x QH so, necessarily, those horses had just APHA papers.

HOWEVER, if you take the TOP horses bred for reining, cutting, hus, halter, or WP in both AQHA and APHA and compare their bloodlines, you will more often see similar than dissimiar lines.

>>>>> Anybody breeding QH's or Paints for the serious QH or Paint markets, don't cross the breeds.

????
Paint World Champion, Paint Congress Champion, and Superior Halter stallion
Kids Gold Style Paint
His sire is a leading QH halter sire and his dam's pedigree is full of the same QH bloodlines you would find behind top QH halter horses.

APHA Superior Halter, 2008-2009 APHA leading Sires List.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mighty+ambitious
His dam is a QH, his sire's dam is a QH, 7/8 of his gr. grandparents are QHs. The horse himself is also double registered QH.

Superior Heading, Heeling, Steer Stopping, multiple top 5s at the APHA World and a reserve World Champion--
Makin Us Watch Paint
https://www.painthorsestallions.com/makn_us_watch.htm
His dam is a QH, his sire's dam is a QH, 7/8 of his great-grandparents are QHs.

APHA World Champion in Junior reining in 2007.
Spooks Gotta Gun Quarter Horse
Spooks Gotta Gun : AQHA-APHA Bay Overo Stallion
Pedigree is all QH. Horse is double registered Paint and QH.

APHA World Champion in reining.
The Big Gun Painthttp://www.hicksqh.com/stallions/spooks-gotta-gun/index.html
Sire double registered paint and QH, dam has a QH dam. 3/4 grandparents are QH, 7/8 gr. grandparents are QH.

APHA World Champion 2 yo Hunter under saddle
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dressed+the+best
Both parents QH.

APHA World Champion Ama. Western Pleasure, Multiple WP futurity winner, over 300 APHA WP points.
Shes Inviting Paint
Show Horses - Roberts Family Show Horses
Sire is a Congress-winning QH.

So there are definitely some people breeding for the serious Paint market that DO use QH close up and often-- the same lines that are winning in comparable disciplines at AQHA shows.

>>>>> And any horse with one or the other breed more than three generations back no longer counts as a 'crossbred' because there isn't enough genetic material to worry about.

APHA accepts using a QH or TB parent for a fully registered Paint, so for APHA, Paints with QH or TB blood are not considered crossbreds regardless of where in the pedigree those other breeds fall. I wasn't calling Paints with QH parentage crossbred. They are fully registered Paints according to APHA.

>>>>>If we are to believe what you're saying, then the TB and the Arab, and a whole other list of breeds are essentially the same because they came from the same bloodlines...but clearly they are breeds unto themselves.

The closing of the books for the Arabian breed pre-dated the formation of the TB, so moot point. The TB allowed crossing to Arabian into the 20th century, but their books have been closed to that option for at least 70 years now (and the cross was not being used for many years prior to its "official" removal). APHA, on the other hand, still allows crossing to QH with no limits as to amount or frequency of its use.

And I never said that I do not consider APHA and AQHA to be seperate breeds-- only that I consider them similar breeds with similar bloodlines and similar traits, overall.

>>>>> The horse in my avatar is by a roping bred Paint stallion...not one registered QH within the first 5 generations.

Link to pedigree, please? I would like to see how he is bred.

I am not saying that APHA x APHA breeding does not occur, sometimes for generations, and that certain lines have less recent QH influx-- I am saying that IMO because of their common roots and because of the continued allowance of QH blood, and the common use of it, my opinion is that the breeds, ON THE WHOLE, are more similar than they are different--

And, in keeping with this thread, in both QHs and Paints (as overall breeds) IMO there is comparable potential for finding temperaments suitable for a beginner.

 

[kevinshorses]

To the OP: Don't bother listening to the breed bigots and find a horse that is right for you. Don't limit your search to ponies as finding a well broke one is difficult and likely more expensive than a larger horse. You need a horse that is old and well trained. Don't worry about conformation, sex, size, breed or color. Worry about the amount and quality of the training the horse has. Find someone that is knowledgable and let them help you find the proper horse for you.

 

[kevinshorses]

Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack.
.

I would bet that you don't have alot of experience with the paint breed either. If you have worked with just a handfull of individuals of a certain breed you shouldn't be pigeon holing the entire breed.

I also have to agree with Eastowest that you are wrong about AQHA blood in APHA horses. Do more research before offering definative advice to beginners please.