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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If I breed a Homozygous Black Overo arabian stallion to my colorfull Bay -she has white hind legs, black frontleggs, black knees, yellow shadings and a key like star- Spanish Mustang...what color and type of horse would I get? My mustang is super sweet, calm and ultra brave. They say that this stallion too is very sweet and calm.
Thanks
Shira♡
 

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So sire would be EEaa if homozygous black. Mare is at least E_ and A. You will certainly get E which rules out red entirely and may or may not get A for bay. You NEED to test for frame in your mare or you could get a foal with LWO (homozygous frame) that will mean baby will need to he euthanized after birth or will die soon after in a cruel manner.
 

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I would get the mare tested as @QtrBel said. I do think it's unlikely that the horse carries frame based on the description, but it's super important when breeding overo.

It sounds like you would get either a black or bay foal. The amount of white would be influenced by the overo gene.

What type is the arabian? Are there any pictures of him? Some are so slender and others are big barrels, so it's hard to predict what type of horse you might get.
 

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@Filou even a solid horse or horse with little white can carry frame. If you do not know the parentage or are not 100% sure they are a breed that does not carry frame then testing for frame can save you the misery of losing a foal.
 

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Spanish Mustangs carry frame. The stallion she is looking at is overo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If I breed a Homozygous Black Overo arabian stallion to my colorfull Bay -she has white hind legs, black frontleggs, black knees, yellow shadings and a key like star- Spanish Mustang...what color and type of horse would I get? My mustang is super sweet, calm and ultra brave. They say that this stallion too is very sweet and calm.
Thanks
Shira♡
This is the stallion:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So sire would be EEaa if homozygous black. Mare is at least E_ and A. You will certainly get E which rules out red entirely and may or may not get A for bay. You NEED to test for frame in your mare or you could get a foal with LWO (homozygous frame) that will mean baby will need to he euthanized after birth or will die soon after in a cruel manner.
Okay i'm getting a little confused here... sooo if my mustang carried frame would that be bad or good? (i'm only 14y and just trying to figure out some stuff).
If frame is dangerous what kind of horse would be safe for her to breed with?
here's a picture of her:
 

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Okay i'm getting a little confused here... sooo if my mustang carried frame would that be bad or good? (i'm only 14y and just trying to figure out some stuff).
If frame is dangerous what kind of horse would be safe for her to breed with?
here's a picture of her:

The Frame Overo colouring is lethal when homozygous, when they carry two copies. It causes foals to be born with incomplete digestive tracts and they die a terrible death within days if not euthanized. 100% of the time.


The stallion has one copy, Oo. If your mare also had Oo, then there will be a 25% chance of a OO foal. Too high odds for the risk.



Punnet square:

__|O_|_o
O|OO|Oo
o |Oo |oo


Sometimes it's obvious if a horse has frame. Frame can hide, though. You can have solid horses with no white at all who are Oo. Often in solid horses, they will have low leg white and big blazes, but other colour genes can influence that presentation. That's why we've said if there is even a chance that the mare carries Frame through her breeding, she needs to be DNA tested.
 

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So, it sounds like if you are considering breeding your mare that you had best get a genetic panel test done, so you know her genetic makeup. That would test for the Lethal White gene, right?
 

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At 14 years old, your parents are the ones that are going to be signing a breeding contract. So are your parents down with that?
 
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Carrying the frame gene is not a bad or good thing. It just is. Your horse either has it or doesn't. You know the stallion does and the breed that your mare is can carry frame. It is breeding a frame horse to a frame horse that is bad as both parents can pass the gene and that IS bad. One of the prior posts explains the genetics. Have your mare tested by a reputable lab (Animal Genetics or UC Davis) and if the test shows she carries frame then you would need to find a stallion that has been tested and does not. This mare and foal both carry frame. Tested foal as the mare had a lethal white prior to my ownership.
 

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Animal Genetics runs specials on testing and they have a summer special running. All it takes is some mane or tail hair with the follicle attached so it has to be pulled and not cut.
 

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@tinyliny it depends. A 5 panel only tests for genes for HYPP and the like not color pattern. The 6 panel added LWO and would cover frame. You always want to read the information so you can be sure it is included.
 

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OP you could add testing Agouti status. If your mare is AA then bred to a black stallion you would only get bay. If your mare is Aa then it would be a 50/50 chance for black or bay.
 

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I did a screen shot of this from his ad. He is clearly advertised as Overo in other parts of the ad with W19, sabino and rabicano. Then in the paragraph that lists the genetic disease they say no LWO. I would ask for copies of test as LWO is Overo/frame and they are not clear on what overo is to make the claims they do. The test would be definitive. Realize breeding to color does not guarantee color. The mare in my above attachment came from two very loud parents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I did a screen shot of this from his ad. He is clearly advertised as Overo in other parts of the ad with W19, sabino and rabicano. Then in the paragraph that lists the genetic disease they say no LWO. I would ask for copies of test as LWO is Overo/frame and they are not clear on what overo is to make the claims they do. The test would be definitive. Realize breeding to color does not guarantee color. The mare in my above attachment came from two very loud parents.
Well thank you for all the info.
We were already planning on having my mare tested(thanks to you though;)).
 

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The stallion people really need to get their facts straight - W19 is not sabino. While W19 is technically overo in that it is not tobiano.. using that term can lead to a lot of confusion. Purebred arabians do not have frame. That stallion is also NOT rabicano.



OP, it's smart to test your mare for LWO/frame just so you know. If you also test her extension and agouti, you will have a better chance of knowing what color the foal would be.


OP, what are you hoping for the resulting foal to be good at? Why did you pick this stallion for your mare?
 
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