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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Sorry to put this in it's own thread but since it's media heavy I didn't want to effect other postings and threads load time. Feedback, comments and constructive criticism welcome! Thanks in advance!

Name: Julep
Age: 15
Breed: Swedish Warmblood
Height: 16.2 1/2
Weight: Was 1603 now down to 1515 lbs vet says she could stand to loose another 50-75-ish lbs.

Pedigree: Despite being open book reg shes sired by swedish warmblood going back 4 generations.

Discipline: English (Hunt seat & dressage)
Personality: She is (also) a big girl and she absolutly knows it.

Snotty but loving with "Her people." Very alpha mare. At one time was boss mare in a heard of 50+ PMU rescues. Very respectfull for people who know what they're doing, and not for people who don't.

Other: Very smart ... rediculously smart. Can understand and differenciate over a dozen items/toys on command and even more movements.

Had an acccident in her youth causing a partial miniscus tear in her right stifle.(Accident was over 10 years ago and vet estimates shes prolly 85% of original ability, but should not jump anything larger than a small hop 2" or less, and infrequently. Really doesn't effect her except that she now has a itsy-bitsy shorter reach in her stride with that one leg.

Like I said she was out to pasture at a rescue for several years and gained weight on the fresh grass.

Accomplishments: Being awesome.

Breeding Plans: None at the moment but activly considering as her previous owner kept her pervious 4 yo who is a beautiful as well. Considering crossing with an Irish Draught for a nice Irish Sport Horse, or another warmblood. Due to her age I would perfer in the next 36 months.

Known faults: Aside from the injury, I am absolutly aware of her feet. She toes in-in the front, and out on the back left fortunatly her old injury has kep that leg fairly straight. Also still working on getting her weight down. Shes too easy of a keeper and she seems to be loosing weight in the areas I've circled in green, and aren't hereditary conformation faults. Shes just fat.

Photos:
Sorry about the not being fully squared, she likes cameras and it's hard to get her to hold still. I did manage to get a couple with at least a front and rear in the theoretical correct spot and included the same shot with and without guides.













Video
Trotting with aids:

Walking straight on:


At Liberty (Canter isn't normally that constrained .. shes prancing a bit):
 

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She is a heavier built mare but you already knew that. Other than the front legs that you mentioned I don't see any glaring faults. She is a bit overconditioned and you can tell she has foaled out but other than that she's a nice looking mare. I would not hesitate to breed her for a sport horse or warmblood baby. Although I would find a more tucked, leaner made stud to clean up her heaviness but that's a personal preference of mine. If you like the heavier built warmbloods then she will definitely deliver with a draught stud. I'm jealous, her trot with those side reins is great!
 

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What I see:

Bit of a plain head, but it's little (not a jughead).

Long back, which creates problems with her movement (more on that later.)

Level croup with her hip turned out.. also creates problems with her movement.

Front pasterns seem much steeper then back feet... which almost look clubby.

Would like to see the point of her shoulder a little higher, which frees up the shoulders more and gives her a better slope.

I like the way her neck ties in to the back, and good length of neck.

Now with the videos, the first problem you can clearly see is a direct result of a long back and a turned out hip--she does not track up. (I understand the right leg has limited mobility, but that does not effect the left leg not tracking up). When you have a horse that does not track up naturally, upper level ANYTHING becomes near impossible. They cannot collect--the hip does not turn to get the legs underneath the body. Again it is evident in the at liberty video, as she has a short stride and does not track up.

I think with this mare, if you have to breed her (bad legs and all), I would go with a hunter stallion with a shorter back and one that has a history of throwing GREAT, not just 'ok' hips. She does not say 'dressage' to me, and I think it would be easier to breed for flatter movement then it would be to add so much (on top of conformation) to this mare. You can also get away with a longer back much easier in the hunters then you can in dressage. She also has a nice neck, which I think is important in a 'pretty' hunter ring then it is in a dressage one.
 

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As far as for a dressage mare of the Swedish Warmblood type, she is not exemplary. Personally when I look for breeding, I like to compare siblings, offspring and horses within the breed to look for a good sense of "type" and ability. You didn't post lines (which arguably, are the most important thing when breeding these kinds of horses) so I'm just going to show another Swedish Warmblood mare who does dressage and is what I would consider "exemplary".

This is the mare Raffles, on the Pan Am silver medal winning team in 2006:



As far as for breeding, the mare should show 3 uphill, free moving gaits (despite injury) and have an overall good "picture" showing balance and 4 good legs.
As much as a stallion will improve the mare, 50% of the foal is still the mare. We need to be as selective with our broodmares as we are with our stallions to ensure we are furthering and improving the breed.
 

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Do you guys think that you could explain what you mean by hip angles? I have a hard time seeing them...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
NittanyEquestrian: I totally agree with your thoughts about crossing her to balance out the heaviness, I hear it a lot and may consider crossing her with a finer boned horse if after I next breed her. I am actually a fan of the heavier baroque and draft builds, partly b/c I myself could fall in to that category (I'm nearly 6" tall, and truly rubenesque).

Mayfieldk: I absolutely agree about her back feet they look club in those pictures, my farrier says she has 2 1/2 different feet instead of 1 similar foot on 4 different legs. However I swear it's not, it's the footing in the arena. I promise next time pictures shall be on solid ground. She was previously owned by a local non-profit where I worked with her previously, so she’s only been in my care for 4 months and the corrective shoeing is only recently starting to make a difference.
Her head is plain, but it's not fault-ridden which I can work with. Plus in person it's easier to see she has a really pretty expression.
Fortunately I'm not so much in to dressage it just happens to be the only thing she can compete with her injury. I'm much more interested in to the heavier British-style hunters. Previously she was bred to a beautiful Irish Draught and produced an amazing Irish Sport horse.
>(I understand the right leg has limited mobility, but that does not affect the left leg not tracking up).
Actually according to the vet it is. Due to the way she tore her meniscus in the accident and the way the patellar & collateral ligament healed with the patella; it does have to do with the hip angle, but it's not genetic.

Here's a really good article explaining the stifle and meniscus and specifically the effect on the stride: Stifle
That being said ... legs, angulations and compact but even proportions are the highest in my priorities.
Anebel:
>We need to be as selective with our broodmares as we are with our stallions
You are absolutely right! And even if she produced a cloned foal of herself with turned around legs and pre or post injury stifle, I would be grateful that I have the mind, personality and cocked-up build for another 20+ years!





Shes big, she's strong willed & bodied, unforgiving and a bit of schadenfreude just like myself. I purchased her for $0. She was free partially b/c she has the old injury and it limits her function but also b/c she's a bit of a bully if she doesn't respect you or she thinks you don't know what you're doing; not exactly the right horse for a kids & horse program, but as a non-profit you use what you have, right? She really is the right horse for me, and since I know she's not going to be around forever, long-term plans dictate that if I want a reliable replacement for her when she retires, I only have a few years to make it happen in.

So thank you for the feedback and I'll post again for help deciding which "baby-daddy" would produce closest to my ideal!
 

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I said left leg, and I meant left leg.

The injury is in the right leg, is it not?

She does not track up with EITHER leg because of her conformation.
 
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