[alfjupiter82]

I'm looking at purchasing these two broodmares. What do you all think of their conformation and bloodlines?

A Summer Social
Picture:
https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/January242012#5701211716970703426
Bloodlines:
a Summer Social


Done After Dark
Picture:
https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/January242012#5701211784027565666
Bloodlines:
Done After Dark Paint


Our Stallion
Bloodlines:
Eddies Sports Bar Quarter Horse

 

[mystykat]

Links won't work for me...

 

[alfjupiter82]

I fixed them. Sorry about that.
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[alfjupiter82]

Links won't work for me...

I fixed them
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[mystykat]

Hm, do you have pictures of your stud to see how he would compliment them?

 

[Elana]

IMO neither of those mares should be bred from what those images showed. Both are weak in the loin area.

The paint is tied in below the knee and has what looks to be weak/posty hind legs. Nice neck and her head ties on nice to her neck.. and her head is nice.. but you don't ride the head.

The black horse looks butt high and also long in the back. Maybe she has better front legs, but from this photo you cannot tell.

I would like to see photos of the stud.. and if he is as lackluster as these two mares, I would not breed him either. OTOH if your stud is spectacular, you want better mares than these for him.

 

[SunnyDraco]

Black Tie Social is the first mare's sire and the second mare's grandsire on both sire and dam side. He really seems to me that he carries the frame, from his facial marking, some of the pictures of his progeny as well as by looking at his line and seeing at least one frame overo near him. Both mares could be carring frame (the sorrel might be a frame, I think), but you wouldn't know for sure unless you tested them for frame. QHs are also able to carry frame, so you would want to test the stud for frame before breeding possible frame carriers.

Not impressed with the conformation of either of them. If I were to choose one over the other, I would pick the black. I can live with a little butt high and a slightly longer back (which are pretty common in paints with their QH and Thoroughbred background).

Nothing really stands out to me in the stud's pedigree (a couple in the third generation and more after that), but he could be quite the looker. Do you have any pictures of him?

 

[alfjupiter82]

Here he is...

https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/January24201202#5701300856731698738

https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/January24201202#5701300901972437058

 

[bubba13]

Very poor conformation. Very light bone and tied in behind the knee. Awful hind end. Straight through stifle and hock. Bet she has back leg soundness problems.

I'd like to see better photos.

 

[Elana]

I looked at the stud. Take down the first photo.. it really does NOTHING for him at all. When you take photos of a stud.. ANY stud.. you need to ALWAYS make him look good.

He has good bone and is OK but from his conformation I do not see any compelling reason to keep him a stud! What has he done? Does he herd cattle all day or do other real life work? Has he, himself, earned any titles? Have his offspring done anything stellar? Won at barrels? Cutting? Dressage? If you are going to have a stud, he not only needs great photos, he needs to be proven!

The stud is long in the back.. IF you insist on breeding him (and I would not based on these photos UNLESS he has a proven work or performance record) you need to find REALLY TOP mares. Good Bone, Short coupled and so forth.

Really, with all the horses out there for sale and for free (and sound horses going to slaughter) you have no reason to breed any of these three horses.

Not meaning to be harsh.. just the truth as I see it and the truth is often harsh.

 

[SilverShadowStable]

Dr. Deb Bennet has awesome books on form to function if you find yourself questioning if the horse your looking at may not be the best. There are lots of conformation forums out there to learn from too. If these mares are your first consideration for your boy, take your time when buying a mare, she is 50-60% of the mix. Your stallion has some nice points, really scrutinize what you want for him to put into the mix and don't buy a mare that will work against his best traits. That special mare should only strengthen his weak points. And always look at the grown babies of the mares, if they aren't matching your ideal, keep looking and enjoy the saddle time with your boy while you do.
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[MangoRoX87]

Uh. Sorry. But there is nothing special about either of those mares in my eyes..

 

[mudpie]

You know, my best advice to you would be not to breed them, and possibly to get your stallion gelded. There are a huge amount of unwanted horses... it seems to me that breeders who breed simply to breed are the source of this, you know? They're cute and all... but maybe it's best if we just don't breed these horses.

 

[Bellasmom]

Don't hate the stud, though I agree I wouldn't breed him in this economy. Plus there are already about a trillion QH floating around out there, the most overproduced breed there is, IMO. Don't like the paint mare at all, harder to tell anything about the black one. I would ask myself--what am I adding to the gene pool to benefit the breed? The answer here would be "nothing".

 

[alfjupiter82]

We took over a ranch a few months ago so I have not taken any professional pictures of our horses yet. Those are to come very soon for our website. Still new to all of this but practice makes perfect and working with horses is my passion. Im learning about genetics, conformation etc but takes time so that is why I'm asking questions. I know our stallion is worth breeding. He is one of the very few papered stallions to come off the Huntsville Prison Farm and was purchased at a very rare "premium auction". I'll put a link below that talks about their horses, the link is very sad though because recently kill buyers got their hands on these horses. His babies are beautiful with very good dispositions (known in the Hancock line). Pictures of a few listed below (not professional pics). Thank you for pointing out issues with the mares.

Link to Info about where stallion came from:
www.horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/10126

Pictures of 2010/2011 Colts and Fillies
https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/EddiesSportsBar2010And2011Foals#5701660339746033122
https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/EddiesSportsBar2010And2011Foals#5701659963832263698
https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/EddiesSportsBar2010And2011Foals#5701659928752804162
https://picasaweb.google.com/alajupiter82/EddiesSportsBar2010And2011Foals#5701660307994055042

 

[mudpie]

Those babies are not exceptional by any means. I still stand by what I said before: It'd be best not to breed them.

 

[bubba13]

He's actually a fairly nice run-of-the-mill type stud (not bad conformation by any means, but not exceptional, either), but now that I know where he came from, that's actually an excellent reason NOT to breed him--particularly with so many related horses going to slaughter. That right there should tell you they aren't in very high demand or very valuable. Looks and good dispositions are extremely commonplace today. Athletic ability, suitabilty for particular disiciplines, and soundness are just as important--no, even more important--considerations.

 

[alfjupiter82]

Horses like him are sought after around here (Prison horses). They are super work horses and are push button. Our stallion was a prison gaurds work horse who patrolled the fields all day long along with working cattle. No one knew that those horses were going to be there. If they did I believe none of the horses would have made it into the hands of a kill buyer. Last year when that happened the drought was really bad and the only people at the small auctions were kill buyers. Of course they snatched up those horses because they were healthy and could make more money on their weight. We have a few good broodmares that were here when we took over and a few we took out of the mix so we were looking for a few to replace them. Over the last two days I have done a bunch of research and see what everyone means about the mares. I think we are going to wait until next year for the AQHA Best Of Remuda Sale consignment (we missed this years). We really like some of the Waggoner and 6666 Quarter horses. We want to turn out really great foals each year with just a few mares so we can really concentrate on high quality and not quantity.

 

[CLaPorte432]

We want to turn out really great foals each year with just a few mares so we can really concentrate on high quality and not quantity.

The two mares you posted would add quantity not quality to your program. There's nothing special about them. Just baby makers.

As far as the foals he's produced...They might have nice dispositions and personality, they are cute...But I honestly wouldn't give them a second look if I was in the market for another horse.

Sorry...

 

[waresbear]

Were you looking to make money with this breeding business? I will say, iterate what everyone else here is telling you and the rest who haven't posted are thinking....you will be stuck with horses that no one will buy at a profit to you. Your stallion is pretty decent for sure, but the babies posted are just average horses that no one can make money on, just loveable regular horses, no profit for you, only work & more work. If you want to get your feet wet in the breeding business, you did ok with the stallion, but acquire a mare with a superb show record, also a proven producer. Campaign her baby and go from there. Otherwise you're chucking your money away and causing yourself more work.