[BlueEyed paint]

My only problem with my little mare is I am the only one that can ride her. I put her first rides on and she was great but my health went down and i decided it wasnt a good idea for me to be up there. So i sent her to a trainer. She has been thru several trainers and not a single one can stay on her.

They have all been males and she has tossed every single trainer. Is she just going to stay a one person horse and how can i help her become a people horse? On the ground very few can handle her and get scared of her as soon as they see she is blind in one eye.

My fiance and i are the only ones that can load her in a trailer. She was badly abused when i got her 4 years ago and was dangerous but is fine and happy now providing mom is around.

We have found the pain issues and corrected them so there is no pain issue just a bucking problem with other people.

 

[smrobs]

I would look around for a trainer that specializes in problem horses. Many regular horse trainers are not prepared or equipped to ride one out that really knows how to buck. They are harder to find but I have a feeling that it is going to take someone that knows how to "cowboy" to get her rode.

 

[ShutUpJoe]

I think it takes a lot for a horse that is blind in one eye to trust somebody. She developed trust in you because you probably took your time with her. What you need is a trainer who will take their time with her and develop a lot of trust.

You need to expose her to a lot of people who won't hurt her so she learns to trust more people. Have several people pet her, groom her and give her treats.

I think someone who deals with problem horses but is patient would be the best idea.

 

[NittanyEquestrian]

I have a rescued Mustang that was unhalterable, untouchable and completely not into human contact. He was adopted from BLM as a recently gelded, nervous 6 year old and then was left loose in a pasture with a halter on as that was the only way they could catch him. He got a halter sore, they took the halter off and that was the last time in 2 years anyone had caught him. He could be petted, if he wanted to. And of course he would stretch really far to get close enough for treats but that was it. It took me about 6 months to be able to halter, lead, tack him up and lunge him. This was in between working, school and life. I have no doubt this could have been done much faster if I had more time and an indoor in which to work him instead of being in central PA in winter with only an outdoor ring. But that's beside the point...he now lets me do anything on the ground but not other people. I'm slowly forcing the issue and getting other people to expect the things out of him that I do.

The moral of that little story was that you have two options. Get someone to ride the bucks and cowboy her up, once she realizes bucking is not going to get them to leave she will probably decide that they might have something to say and get trained. This is not a bad idea and will probably cost you less money. However, some people are morally against "cowboying" and forcing horses to do and accept things and that is not necessarily a bad thing either.

Your other option is find a trainer that will let you introduce them, work with you on the ground to gain her trust and then take it from there. It will take longer, cost more and if each method is done right you SHOULD finish with the same result. How you want to get to the result is entirely up to you.

 

[kevinshorses]

I think you should find smarter horse trainers. If you cowboy a horse like that then you will create a horse that will give everybody that gets on her a try. If you can ride her then you will never have a problem but if she bucks you off she will keep bucking untill you ride her or quit trying. What I would do is work on taking every little brace out of her and getting her as soft as possible. I would probably lay her down as I have mentioned doing before and if that didn't work I would try a buck stopper like Monte Roberts uses. Basically it's just a thin piece of rope that goes under the horses lip and over the pole then a rope goes from the pole to your saddle horn or gullet. You set it so that it comes tight when your horses head is just a little lower than natural. When horses buck they take a big leap forward and duck thier head between thier legs. When they do this with the buck stopper they get pulled up short and stopped before they can get going. It is NOT humane and it WILL hurt your horse but it is far better than getting bucked off and having your significant other wipe you butt for the rest of your life.

If you notice my signature line it is good advice for both the good things your horse does and the bad things. You have to think about what happened BEFORE what happened, happened. Something is happening that is setting the horse off. Once you find out what that is then it makes it easier to deal with.

 

[FlitterBug]

Yes, find another trainer. I work with a lot of rescue horses. I actually really enjoy working with horses that decided that people didn't offer them a good deal. Once you get the trust with this horse, they will do anything for you. Most of my horses were free or close to it because they had been through the long run of trainers and titled "worthless".

I had a horse in a few months ago with a bucking problem. He had people on his back before, but had thrown several off and sent one to surgery. Other trainers gave up on him. A bucking horse is always trying to tell you something, whether it has to do with pain, confusion, or just not trusting, you just have to understand what it is. The fun thing about problem horses is that it is not like starting a new colt, you are actually starting below zero, cleaning up someone elses mistakes before even getting the chance to build correct habits. They don't follow the regular program and you usually have to listen to them and develop what they are lacking as you go along. They have to do these things until they own them to transfer them to other people and have the patience to deal with people that may just be figuring it out.
I know a lot of trainers that can do a good job bringing up a colt and starting it under saddle, but many of them scratch their heads and say its not worth their time to work with a problem horse. Really, I can see where its not worth their time for someone whose money depends on the rather rapid performance rate of their horses. Find someone that will take their time with her, you may end up waiting a little longer to get her back, but she is obviously not going to accept the norm.

 

[Jacksmama]

Personally, I wouldn't try any kind of gadget like the buck stopper. It could help, who knows, but it could also teach her how to buck with her head up. I don't care for the "gadgets" people sometimes use, they're short cuts and with an animal that has been mishandled IME shortcuts are never a good idea.

Really, it may be impossible for you to find but I'd say a trainer that is calm, patient, and has the ability to ride anything with hair on it is the best bet. You don't want them to push her too fast, you want them to gain her trust, but they also need to be able to handle whatever she throws at them.

 

[BlueEyed paint]

I appreciate everyones advice but i think i lacked on info. I am going to try and fill the blanks i do apologize.

I have had a trainer cowboy her and it was the same result. Wild mean bucks when she got tired of having to listen to him. We thought maybe she was sensitive and took her out of a bit. The trainer wanted to use a bosal. She did fine for walking forward and backing but when it came to turning or trotting or loping(mind you i asked him not to lope her) The turning she didnt understand the bosal. I had purchased a nurtural bitless bridle and she did great in it but by that time resented the trainer and the trainer had started to fear her.

Her bucks can be from a big buck to a buck and rear and she will even rear up and start shaking then buck in her rear. She does spins and looks like a bronc at a rodeo. She has never bucked or bolted with me. When she gets scared or unsure she tenses up and starts trembling till it either passes or she gets my message. She even looks back at me to see if i am still there.

The last trainer had also gained full trust of her before he tried to cowboy. Now i know no one is going to gain the trust i have as i have been doing it for years and they only spent a couple of months.

Flitterbug she is actually a rescue horse. When i had rescued her she was a rack of bones and scared and mean. She used to attack people when they went in the pen. It took me 4 months before i could touch her and after 8 months of owning her i was able to handle her safely as long as no one else was in the corral. It took me a 1 1/2 to get anyone else to handle her without me and it was only 2 other people that did not fear a horse like her.

ShutUpJoe i have had several people pet and groom and handle her and she is fine with it as long as i am there. When i am gone the trainers wife handled her most of the time and i got several reports that she shoved, striked, bolted. She was flat out mean to her. I dont know how much is true but i do know i had to have her stop going around her as she feared the horse.

My biggest problem is finding someone that is capable to handle a horse that needs a alpha leader or someone that knows how to handle horses that have been abused as she was.

Kevin she is so soft undersaddle and on the ground i simple touch the rein and i have her head. She walks out perfectly ears perked and licking and chewing. As soon as another rider is on she is listening but after a while she is ready for them to be off. I couldnt how ever use that gadget i couldnt do that to her as she has always tried so hard with me i think its cruel to do something when she doesnt buck with me. I can ride her she has never bucked, bolted, reared or anything with me.

I am almost to the point of accepting she will never be finished as i cant do it and she wont allow anyone else. But also all the other trainers have been male. I dont know her past but that she came to me mean and whip marks over her face and body and looked like the whip marks were infected as some were bleeding when i took her in. I have no idea if a man or woman or both had done that to her. She loves my fiance and adores him. She follows him around without lead and that was after thier first meeting.

NittanyEquestrian I understand where you are coming from. It is hard to take an untouchable horse and turn it into people friendly.

The last trainer had also laid her down. With very negative results. They fought her hard and she ended up with deep cuts on her face and legs. I didnt know what was going on as i wasnt there and they told me later why she had so many cuts. She got meaner towards the trainer after they laid her down. They couldnt catch her let alone the trainers wife was also my trimmer and she couldnt trim her either. My mare wouldnt let her close.

I dont want you guys to think i am not listening i have taken your advice into consideration. I am just trying to explain her more and the fact that they have laid her down, cowboy, used head ties to keep her from throwing her head to rear which then turned into bucking. Have changed saddles, chiro, massage, riders, bits, everything we could think of. Its the same thing everytime.

I just wasnt sure if i was missing something or if there is even such a thing as a patient calm trainer anymore?

 

[Mercedes]

Is there a reason she has to be able to be ridden by other people? If she's your horse, and she's fine for you, what's the issue?

And yes, occasionally you'll come across a horse that simply will not do for anyone else, regardless. And you'll occasionally come across a horse who's gender bias. I've owned that horse, still own her 25 years later. One of my greatest teachers. And while she's mellowed considerably, in her hay day, I was the only one she didn't try to maim. Not her fault, she'd been drugged and beaten by 'men' and she could spot a man a mile away. The man who became my husband was the first male she didn't try to take out...that's how I knew he was a keeper. LOL!

Blindness falls into a similar category. It takes a tremendous amount of trust on the horse's part to be guided when it can't see properly.

Of course, we could be dealing with a physical issue that is aggravated by riding, so you should make sure she doesn't have a back problem.

 

[Rule of Reason]

Your longer post was enlightening and explained a lot. Now my question is, like Mercedes', does she really need to be ridden by other people? You did a wonderful thing and rescued a horse whose trust in people was below zero. She now trusts you, and only you. I'm not sure she would be capable of more, considering what you say she's been through. Are you able to keep her indefinitely? IMHO, she will never be like other horses. If you can be safe with her and she is safe with you, this may be the best she can be.

I have a little, and I emphasize little, experienced with abused horses, and I believe that depending on the horse and the situation they came from, it can permanently affect their mind so they're never quite the same. So it ends up being the same question--do you NEED her to accept other riders?

 

[kevinshorses]

I agree that if you can ride her without fear then just ride her. She may get over it or she may not but it makes no difference if she is your horse. I still stand behind the fact that you have found a bunch of crappy trainers. I have laid done barely handled stallions and huge drafts and about every ohter type of horse and never left a mark on one of them. I can't see how, done properly, you could leave deep cuts on a horses face unless you ran them into a fence. As far as the buck stopper it is something that can save your life and your horses life but if a little pain when your horse does something dangerous isn't worth that then that's your call. It will not however cause a horse to defy biomechanics, gravity and the laws of physics and buck with it's head up.

 

[BlueEyed paint]

The problem is i cant ride. I mean i can but it is very painful. I am selling my riding horse and just to sit on him for 5 minutes to show someone how he does is to much for me and i am usually home in bed for the rest of the day because i cant stand to walk. I am to have reconstruction done on my knees and my neck is deteriating that they are talking rod in the neck.

So that is our problem is i cant and i shouldnt be on a horse period let alone a green. And i dont want to just throw her in a pasture and make a pet out of her when i know she can be rode by me because how do i know 5 years down the road or even 10 years down the road i am able to ride once more. I would like to ride her but i want her finished and kept in shape in the mean time.

Now if it does come down to the fact that there is no way around me riding her and thats the only way to go then i will have to accept the fact that i have a very large dog that looks like a horse.:lol:

I just didnt know if there is something that can be done or just to accept it. I dont want to use harsh ways nor do i want to use gadgets and prefer not to be any crueler to her than others already have. Besides if i was to put something like that on that caused her pain i would lose all of the trust i spent years gaining. I know if i told this horse to jump off a cliff this horse would look at me and go are you sure then do it. She will do anything i ask because of the years i spent working on trust.


And as for the blindness its moonblindness. Its in her left eye right now and the vet has told me time and time again it will be in both and there is no way to stop it. I can slow it down but never stop it. So what ever we decide needs to be done in the next year or two while we still have one eye.

 

[BlueEyed paint]

I agree that if you can ride her without fear then just ride her. She may get over it or she may not but it makes no difference if she is your horse. I still stand behind the fact that you have found a bunch of crappy trainers. I have laid done barely handled stallions and huge drafts and about every ohter type of horse and never left a mark on one of them. I can't see how, done properly, you could leave deep cuts on a horses face unless you ran them into a fence. As far as the buck stopper it is something that can save your life and your horses life but if a little pain when your horse does something dangerous isn't worth that then that's your call. It will not however cause a horse to defy biomechanics, gravity and the laws of physics and buck with it's head up.

Your right i have found a bunch of crappy trainers that i thought were good and showed me they were good with other horses and said they could handle problem horses. I think they found out how good they were when this horse threw her punches.

Its almost impossible to find a really good trainer now days with all the liars out there.

 

[FlitterBug]

From the sounds of it, what she has gone through is going to make it that much harder to fix. I like that you wanted the trainer to go slow, and I'm sorry that they kept pushing. Her bucking isn't what needs to be fixed. The bucking is only what is showing through of some much deeper issues that do need to be fixed, the bucking only needs to be reprogrammed so that it is not used as a coping mechanism.

Her vision is compromised, which means that she is naturally going to be insecure and that much more testing of a potential leader. Since her defensive mechanism is so much stronger than a normal horse, not to mention her already negative impression of people, it is only going to make her rebel harder when pressure is added. It is going to put the human in more of a predator role rather than a leader. Its not a lesson that needs to be learned, because more than likely, in her mind, she is merely exercising self preservation, something that she learned necessary from her previous life.

Problem horses are a hard area for a trainer to succeed in, not because they are in short supply by any means, but a true problem horse is going to require longer than 30 days. There are enough horses out there without issues that the ones with issues tend to get passed around to people with their own agenda of showing someone whose boss. There is also that delicate line of being accepted as a herd member, but then earning and keeping your place as herd leader. Most trainers will have their methods "do this to achieve that", they have their expectations of how the horse will perform, what a "good horse" should behave like. A horse exercising the strongest methods of defense has gone back to very primitive thinking when it comes to interacting with people, to interact with this horse has to be more than methods, it has to be a conversation.

 

[FlitterBug]

I'm not sure what we can explain to you in a forum page, because there isn't anyone there to carry it out. If you want her to start paying attention, you have to find a trainer that is worth her paying attention to. I do see why you want her to get work done in your condition in with the possible future outcome with her personal condition. She will continue to use bucking as long as bucking works, if you really want it to go away, find out why its coming up. If possible, maybe try to find a female trainer to get her used to new people before reintroducing men. Good luck.

 

[Mercedes]

Well, quite simply we can't always have what we want.

Flitterbugs posts are bang on. *thumbs up*

 

[BlueEyed paint]

Thank you guys so much i feel better to know that i am not just imagining things. I do have a friend were i will be moving to that is great with horses and a female and have her start working with me with my mare.

I think the bucking is ok get off i am done. And she knows how to throw. She has once gone back for more till i called her and she stopped. The other times she hasnt looked back she walked off like ha what you think about that one.

I was also looking into maybe just driving. I may be able to handle light driving. As long as i am talking to her.


I know this horse loves to jump and i was hoping to eventually have her trained for jumping and to later on teach me if i am physically capable.

Thank you guys and i will let you know. She wont start training again till mid april. We will see what comes out of it.

 

[BlueEyed paint]

I started thinking the title to this is wrong. Its not a bucker that needs fixed but the trainers and my way of thinking my little girl will be a normal horse.

 

[Jetana]

I don't know your horse, so I don't think it would be fair for me to offer advice across the internet.
What I'm posting for is to say that if the trainer really gained her trust then 'cowboyed' her, that would explain why she no longer likes him. He taught her that he was a reliable human being who could be trusted, then forced something on her she probably wasn't comfortable with/ready for. Trust level back to zero.

Try to find a trainer who's accustomed to worknig with horses with trust issues. When you have someone else she doesn't know worknig with her, stay there with her, reassuring and reinforcing what the new eprson tells her to do. If you're the only person she trusts, she'll need you to help her trust others.

 

[BlueEyed paint]

I don't know your horse, so I don't think it would be fair for me to offer advice across the internet.
What I'm posting for is to say that if the trainer really gained her trust then 'cowboyed' her, that would explain why she no longer likes him. He taught her that he was a reliable human being who could be trusted, then forced something on her she probably wasn't comfortable with/ready for. Trust level back to zero.

Try to find a trainer who's accustomed to worknig with horses with trust issues. When you have someone else she doesn't know worknig with her, stay there with her, reassuring and reinforcing what the new eprson tells her to do. If you're the only person she trusts, she'll need you to help her trust others.

Well after the last trainer my new rule is no one touches the horse without me there. And where she is now they understand that and dont handle her.