The Horse Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 75 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve posted a few times about my geldings thrush. It’s been an issue since late June since we got him. Our year has been super super wet. I’ve treated with hooflex, thrush buster and recently white lightning. I’ve soaked using a diaper, ziploc bags and just got some soaking boots in. I was cleaning his feet every day. Recently not as much, I got so busy as the Christmas season eats up all my time (I’m an artist so I’m fulfilling a lot of Christmas orders).

He’s trimmed every 4-6 weeks. He has contracted heels from years of being shooed incorrectly but they ARE getting better. Sent farrier the attached photos the other day and she said she’s never seen a hoof that looks like this. She’s sent the photos to farriers more experienced than she is.

Vet has been out twice to look at his feet. Last time was yesterday. I asked about canker but vet had never seen canker before. Neither had the tech. He did not like the look of his hooves and was kind of stumped about the way they look but didn’t have too much advice to offer. He said just keep them as clean as possible and maybe try betadine.

Farrier is coming for trims tonight and we will soak again.

Was hoping someone in here has any more to offer. Winters here are super wet so I feel like this is such an uphill battle.

Photos from this week are attached. These are his back feet which are especially bad. I know they aren’t great. I was by myself and it was getting dark.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
In my opinion (no experience with canker though), this "just" looks like a hoof that has been wet for too long. And is battling thrush.
My mare's feet used to look like that when all the pastures were flooded for weeks :cry:

Are you worried about the strange looking lump at the switchback? Could that be overlaid and crushed bar?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
In my opinion (no experience with canker though), this "just" looks like a hoof that has been wet for too long. And is battling thrush.
My mare's feet used to look like that when all the pastures were flooded for weeks <img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Crying or Very sad" class="inlineimg" />

Are you worried about the strange looking lump at the switchback? Could that be overlaid and crushed bar?
@SwissMiss that, and also his frogs. They have weird bits hanging off. Farrier did she that could just be normal debris.

Since moisture is likely going to be an issue All. Winter. Long. Would some sort of shoe or boot benefit him?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
The frogs look like they have been thrushy for a while...

Boots will not likely keep the moisture out, and actually perpetuate the problem if worn all day long.
Stalling/keeping the horse on dry ground overnight was often suggested (not feasible for me) to let the hooves dry out.
In very wet conditions I had pretty good success with no thrush powder to help things along...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The frogs look like they have been thrushy for a while...

Boots will not likely keep the moisture out, and actually perpetuate the problem if worn all day long.
Stalling/keeping the horse on dry ground overnight was often suggested (not feasible for me) to let the hooves dry out.
In very wet conditions I had pretty good success with no thrush powder to help things along...
Yeah he’s had it since we bought him. So minimum 5 months, and who knows how long before that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well farrier just left. Been a busy week for the horses haha.

She’s certain he doesn’t have canker just really really bad thrush. She scalped him to make sure we get lots of exposure during soaking and helped me soak him. Normally she’s more conservative during trims. This was her fourth time trimming him, and she decided to be more aggressive. She suggested we try painting him with hoof armor to help with the moisture barrier and just be really aggressive with the soaking and picking out daily.

So I’m just gonna keep at it and cross my fingers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,602 Posts
1. Another no to canker, yes to bad thrush.

2. What did you soak with?

3. Whatever your daily life routine is, plan on getting less rest as the hooves will need micro-managed until that stuff clears up:)

4. Does he have any sort of building he can be put in for a few hours daily (or night) to let his hooves have a chance to dry out and for the meds to work?

5. Agree boots will make matters worse, in terms of holding moisture. They would have to come off part of the day and be washed out anyway:)

5.1 There isn't much of anything that will stay in the hoof for any period of time, if the horse is in wet or mud 24/7. If the Hoof Armor doesn't work, you might buy the cow mastitis treatment "ToMorrow" and some 40% zinc oxide diaper rash paste. Shoot the ToMorrow into the central sulci & collateral grooves, then pack the diaper rash paste on top. Repeat once daily and clean those areas good before reapplying meds:)

6. Are you able to get sole shots of the fresh trim and post?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
I forgot about Hoof Armor!
The manufacturer claims that it is antimicrobial and helps with thrush treatment as well.
I actually contacted them to dig a little deeper. While my mare's thrush is almost gone, there is always a little deep pocket somewhere that springs up when I let my guard down. So I asked about using Hoof Armor to help things heal up. The problem: it basically seals the hoof, which great for moisture management, but also the perfect environment for anaerobic stuff (aka thrush) to grow. So if you suspect that your thrush is deeper than just a few mm, or WLD higher up, then it is supposedly better to wait until thrush is either gone completely or more superficial...

If you need more information, contact them directly. They are very helpful and are not trying to sell you stuff "just because".

Unfortunately @walkinthewalk is right with this:
3. Whatever your daily life routine is, plan on getting less rest as the hooves will need micro-managed until that stuff clears up:)
Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
2. What did you soak with?

White lightning

3. Whatever your daily life routine is, plan on getting less rest as the hooves will need micro-managed until that stuff clears up:)

Ugh ugh ugh. We are also on foal watch on top of me working three jobs 😬

4. Does he have any sort of building he can be put in for a few hours daily (or night) to let his hooves have a chance to dry out and for the meds to work?

We do have a stall! I only use it for emergencies because it’s not as big as I’d like, but can definitely do a few hours a day. Thank you for suggesting it!

5. Agree boots will make matters worse, in terms of holding moisture. They would have to come off part of the day and be washed out anyway:)

5.1 There isn't much of anything that will stay in the hoof for any period of time, if the horse is in wet or mud 24/7. If the Hoof Armor doesn't work, you might buy the cow mastitis treatment "ToMorrow" and some 40% zinc oxide diaper rash paste. Shoot the ToMorrow into the central sulci & collateral grooves, then pack the diaper rash paste on top. Repeat once daily and clean those areas good before reapplying meds:)

6. Are you able to get sole shots of the fresh trim and post?

Farrier took lots of photos today. I’ll ask for them!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I forgot about Hoof Armor!
The manufacturer claims that it is antimicrobial and helps with thrush treatment as well.
I actually contacted them to dig a little deeper. While my mare's thrush is almost gone, there is always a little deep pocket somewhere that springs up when I let my guard down. So I asked about using Hoof Armor to help things heal up. The problem: it basically seals the hoof, which great for moisture management, but also the perfect environment for anaerobic stuff (aka thrush) to grow. So if you suspect that your thrush is deeper than just a few mm, or WLD higher up, then it is supposedly better to wait until thrush is either gone completely or more superficial...

If you need more information, contact them directly. They are very helpful and are not trying to sell you stuff "just because".

Unfortunately @walkinthewalk is right with this:
3. Whatever your daily life routine is, plan on getting less rest as the hooves will need micro-managed until that stuff clears up:)
Good luck!
Thank you, that’s very good to know!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Here’s some photos. They are scary to see. I will preface this with the fact that she said she would normally never scalp a horse like this, we are being extreme to try to get this under control. *gulp*
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,602 Posts
1. I see some Whiteline starting (WLD) on the tips of the toes in the next-to-the-last two pics. Those may be the rear hooves?

You need to get on those hooves and stay on them "yesterday" :). I say that with a sense of urgency not with a tone of "go to the woodshed" :):)

2. Is your horse at home or is it standing at a boarding facility? You didn't say if the horse can get into a dry area but, with thrush in four hooves, it needs to be in a dry area for awhile every day.

Is it possible someone could at least stand him on the area where he has been trimmed for at least an hour after applying meds?

3. Order this White Lightning Gel. https://www.centaurforge.com/Grand-Circuit-White-Lightning-Gel-60-ml/productinfo/WHLIGHTGEL/

It's cheaper at Valley Vet ($19 for 2ounces). Still not cheap but neither is a lame horse if that stuff doesn't get under control:)

Read this web page carefully:). This stuff works but it needs some mud-free time to work.

3.1. Use a 1/2" paint brush to apply - Walmart likely has them in their craft dept. I use my old brushes that come with Keretex. A little goes a long way.

Be sure to also paint those toe cracks with the gel.

4. I know $19 and change is a lot for two ounces of something but we get what we pay for, in excessive circumstances like yours:). It is still cheaper and much less painful than the horse going lame, calling a vet, and the vet will tell you to spend money on meds anyway -- and probably nothing more than Koppertox which isn't worth the powder to blow it, IM?hO:)

The horse has to be kept out of the mud, somehow-some way, to give those hooves a chance to heal up. Once they are healed, I would still put something on them 2X/week since the ground conditions are not ideal :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: weeedlady

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
Another thought: You will be soaking those feet in white lightning quite often, which will cost a pretty penny after a while. Oxine AH is basically the same (you activate it with vinegar), but you get a gallon for the same price :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Another thought: You will be soaking those feet in white lightning quite often, which will cost a pretty penny after a while. Oxine AH is basically the same (you activate it with vinegar), but you get a gallon for the same price <img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
That’s actually what I’m using. Just easier to say white lightning lol.

When I soak him I bring him under our car port. It’s been taking me two hours every evening to clean, wash, dry and soak two hooves. So he’s on dry ground for at least that.

We have a stall as well mentioned above. It’s not ideal size wise for him but it’ll do for a few hours every day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,431 Posts
Around 2003, my older horse got a stubborn case of thrush that I simply could not get rid of. I tried all kinds of remedies, but nothing worked. He didn't stand in wet ground, ever. He had a nice dry roomy stall. But he did have the beginnings of Cushings, which caused him to have more health issues and slower healing.

Just when I was at my wits end, an article came out in Equus magazine about treating stubborn thrush. I was to mix scarlet oil, betadine, methylene blue, and formaldehyde into a solution, then pack it into the hooves with cotton. It cleared it up in no time, and I was delighted. Methylene blue and formaldehyde were very expensive. The whole business cost me about $200, but it was so worth it. AND I had piles and piles of extra chemicals to share with someone else who was struggling with thrush. I offered to mix up the correct amounts for my farrier to recommend and sell it, but he laughed at me and scoffed. So I still have it (though who knows if chemicals that old are any good).

I looked online to find that old Equus recommendation when my neighbor was struggling with a horse with bad thrush, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I did not contact Equus or go any further with it because my neighbor had 100% success with that ToMorrow for cows. I have no idea how many drops of which chemical to use. I know the methylene blue was only a few drops. When I looked online, several articles suggested that those chemicals were not safe to use on horses, and no articles about how much to use.

I would imagine if you contacted Equus and asked them to help you find articles around 2002-2004, they could help you find it. It didn't damage my thrush footed horse at all, and it cleared it right up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Let me preface this with I do not have the knowledge others here do. My mare got slightly thrushy twice when it rained for months. I had boots for her anyway, and I lined them with sanitary napkins poured thrush medicine on them, and stalled her every night like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,602 Posts
Let me preface this with I do not have the knowledge others here do. My mare got slightly thrushy twice when it rained for months. I had boots for her anyway, and I lined them with sanitary napkins poured thrush medicine on them, and stalled her every night like that.
Holy Crow - lining the boots with sanitary napkins is stellar!. I never thought of that :bowwdown::bowwdown:

@walkinthewalk been reading that link. I can order the gel but I don’t think I can cover his hooves for 6-8 hours a day. Will it be effective if he’s stalled some hours with the gel on after soaking?
Yes, a couple of hours should be fine:)

Joker has toe cracks from ongoing founder issues. I clean his hooves and put the gel on before I clean him up for turnout. That gives him about 40 minutes of standing on mats, which is good enough for his issue.

I am very fortunate that I don't deal with mud like many folks, however. We sit high with great natural drainage, plus I had gutters & downspouts put on the barn so when we do get frog strangling rains, it all drains away from the barn:)

Hopefully the White Lightning Gel will work and cut your maintenance time down.

If you don't see success with the gel, then try the ToMorrow (squirt in until it starts to overflow), pack with 40% zinc oxide diaper rash cream (WalMart's Equate is cheap), and shove some cotton in there, if it will stay. With this method, you'd be cleaning the hooves once daily, so the cotton wouldn't have time to collect bacteria/fungus if it did manage to stay in:)

Also, were it me, I'm not so sure I would soak his hooves more than once a week, if that as it might end up being counter-productive:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captain Evil

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Let me preface this with I do not have the knowledge others here do. My mare got slightly thrushy twice when it rained for months. I had boots for her anyway, and I lined them with sanitary napkins poured thrush medicine on them, and stalled her every night like that.
Holy Crow - lining the boots with sanitary napkins is stellar!. I never thought of that <img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/bowwdown.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Bowwdown" class="inlineimg" /><img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.horseforum.com/images/smilies/bowwdown.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Bowwdown" class="inlineimg" />

@walkinthewalk been reading that link. I can order the gel but I don’t think I can cover his hooves for 6-8 hours a day. Will it be effective if he’s stalled some hours with the gel on after soaking?
Yes, a couple of hours should be fine:)

Joker has toe cracks from ongoing founder issues. I clean his hooves and put the gel on before I clean him up for turnout. That gives him about 40 minutes of standing on mats, which is good enough for his issue.

I am very fortunate that I don't deal with mud like many folks, however. We sit high with great natural drainage, plus I had gutters & downspouts put on the barn so when we do get frog strangling rains, it all drains away from the barn:)

Hopefully the White Lightning Gel will work and cut your maintenance time down.

If you don't see success with the gel, then try the ToMorrow (squirt in until it starts to overflow), pack with 40% zinc oxide diaper rash cream (WalMart's Equate is cheap), and shove some cotton in there, if it will stay. With this method, you'd be cleaning the hooves once daily, so the cotton wouldn't have time to collect bacteria/fungus if it did manage to stay in:)

Also, were it me, I'm not so sure I would soak his hooves more than once a week, if that as it might end up being counter-productive:)
Thank you, things to consider. They recommend 2-3 times per week so I’m not sure. *scratches head*
 

·
Registered
Elle, 1997 Oldenburg mare
Joined
·
2,085 Posts
I'm a Facebook group about hoof rehab that advocates ensuring a balance of copper, zinc, and iron to grow a healthier hoof and help prevent chronic thrush and white line. (Other things too, but those are the main part of the puzzle.) As I don't own my own horse right now, I can't put any of that to the test myself, but I know a lot of members on there have seen huge improvements by ensuring those are all met and balanced in the diet. Not enough of any of those, or too much iron to zinc ratio, etc., can mess up feet in a way that topical treatments are only a band-aid for. Link about it here (NOT a Facebook link):

Feeding the Hoof
 
1 - 20 of 75 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top